John Drake is No.6?

[Commander Gideon]

Having watched a few episodes from Networks superb Danger Man DVD release,I
have come to the conclusion that No.6 is not John Drake.His accent in Danger
Man is almost American and very English in The Prisoner,agree or disagree?

[Jill Mills]

Post by Commander Gideon
Having watched a few episodes from Networks superb Danger Man DVD release,I
have come to the conclusion that No.6 is not John Drake.His accent in Danger
Man is almost American and very English in The Prisoner,agree or disagree?

Are you new to the series Commander Gideon?

I'm sure people will chip in and give their views.

(Personally, I don't think he is, either...) ;-)

In the meantime, the internet is your friend:

(I refer you to the numerous times this question has already been debated in
this newsgroup and suggest you check the archives.) :-)

Maybe it's time to revise the alt.tv. prisoner FAQ?

The last version I could find hadn't been updated since 2004...

Jill

[Moor Larkin]

On 9 Aug, 11:25, "Jill Mills" <***@NOSPAMvirgin.net> wrote: The
last version I could find hadn't been updated since 2004...

Probably the last time anyone read it was 2004 as well :-)))
Faq the FAQ's I say. Think for yourself!!

So far as John Drake goes: Ralph Smart and Patrick McGoohan made him
up - he's a hero but he aint real, nor was Number Six. So if you want
John Drake to be Number Six he was. If you don't he wasn't.

My real hassle is that people want Patrick McGoohan to be Number Six,
or is it the other way around???

[Jill Mills]

Post by Jill Mills
last version I could find hadn't been updated since 2004...
Probably the last time anyone read it was 2004 as well :-)))
Faq the FAQ's I say. Think for yourself!!

to be Number Six,

Post by Jill Mills
or is it the other way around???

Yes, indeed.

But the same basic questions do seem to get asked over and over again.

This can get very boring.

The polite thing when visiting any newsgroup for the first time is to at
least read the FAQ.

(Nothing can prevent you from making up your own mind!) :-)

To that end, here it is:

http://www.web-sighted.co.uk/franks/faq.html

Jill

[Commander Gideon]

Post by Moor Larkin

Post by Jill Mills
last version I could find hadn't been updated since 2004...
Probably the last time anyone read it was 2004 as well :-)))
Faq the FAQ's I say. Think for yourself!!

to be Number Six,

Post by Jill Mills
or is it the other way around???

Yes, indeed.
But the same basic questions do seem to get asked over and over again.
This can get very boring.
The polite thing when visiting any newsgroup for the first time is to at
least read the FAQ.
(Nothing can prevent you from making up your own mind!) :-)
http://www.web-sighted.co.uk/franks/faq.html
Jill

I'm accessing this newsgroup through Outlook Express and can't see the FAQ
post!

[Jill Mills]

Post by Commander Gideon

Post by Moor Larkin

Post by Jill Mills
last version I could find hadn't been updated since 2004...
Probably the last time anyone read it was 2004 as well :-)))
Faq the FAQ's I say. Think for yourself!!

to be Number Six,

Post by Jill Mills
or is it the other way around???

Yes, indeed.
But the same basic questions do seem to get asked over and over again.
This can get very boring.
The polite thing when visiting any newsgroup for the first time is to at
least read the FAQ.
(Nothing can prevent you from making up your own mind!) :-)
http://www.web-sighted.co.uk/franks/faq.html
Jill

I'm accessing this newsgroup through Outlook Express and can't see the FAQ
post!

It's not a post it's a website.

Here's the relevant section:

( You'll get more discussion if you google the archives.)

Is "Number Six" in "The Prisoner" the same character as "John Drake"
in Danger Man?

A2.18 Both were played by Patrick McGoohan, co-creator of "The
Prisoner", who says they were not intended to be the same character. But the
former script editor, (the late George Markstein), who also claimed to be
the originator of the idea of The Prisoner, said the Prisoner character was
"an agent called Drake, who resigned." Six of one, half a dozen of the
other.
It is worth noting that the unnamed hero of the Prisoner is never
called Drake on- screen. He claims that his name is 'Peter Smith', whilst
speaking to the new tenant of his London house, but may be using a code-name
or alias. John Drake (Danger Man) was the copyright property of Ralph Smart,
and so the makers of The Prisoner did not have permission to use him or his
name. Officially, therefore, The Prisoner cannot be the same John Drake
(whatever David McDaniel's novel might claim).

"Number Six" also seems to have a quite different background, London
life, and fiancée. He may not even be a spy - McGoohan claimed once that the
Prisoner was "a scientist". Some viewers mishear the Leo McKern line "see me
in the morning break" (in the episode 'Once Upon a Time') as "see me in the
morning, Drake" but the script (and careful listening) reveal the truth. The
scripts usually call The Prisoner "P" (for "Prisoner", according to McGoohan
who wrote 3 of the scripts) but then they also often call Number Two's
Butler "Angelo" (the actor's name) so this "P" probably doesn't stand for
"Peter Smith" or "Patrick McGoohan", although when the escapee actors' names
(Leo McKern, Angelo Muscat, Alexis Kanner etc) are overlaid at the end of
the final
episode, the only one not to have their real name is Patrick, credited
instead as plain "Prisoner".

[Moor Larkin]

FAQ:
He claims that his name is 'Peter Smith', whilst speaking to the new
tenant of his London house, but may be using a code-name or alias.

fAQ!
So even when he say what his name was - FAQ won't believe what he
says!!

FAQ:
John Drake (Danger Man) was the copyright property of Ralph Smart, and
so the makers of The Prisoner did not have permission to use him or
his name.
faQ!
I would have thought ITC owned the copyright not Ralph Smart. The name
John Drake was being used to sell magazines all round the world and
novels and comics were being written willy-nilly. Not to mention
jigsaws and kids games. All these had photographs of Patrick McGoohan
plastered all over them. Did Ralph own McGoohan's face as well?

FAQ
Officially, therefore, The Prisoner cannot be the same John Drake
faq!
Officially? As confirmed by Ralph Smart? What cobblers.


FAQ
"Number Six" also seems to have a quite different background, London
life, and fianc�e. He may not even be a spy
FaQ!
Oh yeah. Lots of government scientists are jujitsu experts and have
mind control training, as well as genius navigating skills and most
are drop-dead gorgeous....NOT.....

John Drake spent lots of time in London so I'm sure he had a life
there. One good reason for a secret agent to want to resign would be
to 'marry' and settle down to a 'normal' life.


FAQ
McGoohan claimed once that the Prisoner was "a scientist".
fAq!
What's that got to do with it. He imagined that the Prisoner could
have been a scientist. It wasn't necessary from an actors point of
view that Number Six be a secret agent..... but the character patently
was a secret agent.......


FAQ
Some viewers mishear the Leo McKern line "see me in the morning
break" (in the episode 'Once Upon a Time') as "see me in the morning,
Drake" but the script (and careful listening) reveal the truth.
fAQ!
Maybe Leo and Pat were havin' a craic!! As Jack Nicholson put it,
almost as memorably as, "I'm not a number!" ............. "You can't
handle the truth!!"

[Jill Mills]

"Moor Larkin" <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:***@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
FAQ:
He claims that his name is 'Peter Smith', whilst speaking to the new
tenant of his London house, but may be using a code-name or alias.

fAQ!
So even when he say what his name was - FAQ won't believe what he
says!!

FAQ:
John Drake (Danger Man) was the copyright property of Ralph Smart, and
so the makers of The Prisoner did not have permission to use him or
his name.
faQ!
I would have thought ITC owned the copyright not Ralph Smart. The name
John Drake was being used to sell magazines all round the world and
novels and comics were being written willy-nilly. Not to mention
jigsaws and kids games. All these had photographs of Patrick McGoohan
plastered all over them. Did Ralph own McGoohan's face as well?

FAQ
Officially, therefore, The Prisoner cannot be the same John Drake
faq!
Officially? As confirmed by Ralph Smart? What cobblers.


FAQ
"Number Six" also seems to have a quite different background, London
life, and fiancée. He may not even be a spy
FaQ!
Oh yeah. Lots of government scientists are jujitsu experts and have
mind control training, as well as genius navigating skills and most
are drop-dead gorgeous....NOT.....

John Drake spent lots of time in London so I'm sure he had a life
there. One good reason for a secret agent to want to resign would be
to 'marry' and settle down to a 'normal' life.


FAQ
McGoohan claimed once that the Prisoner was "a scientist".
fAq!
What's that got to do with it. He imagined that the Prisoner could
have been a scientist. It wasn't necessary from an actors point of
view that Number Six be a secret agent..... but the character patently
was a secret agent.......


FAQ
Some viewers mishear the Leo McKern line "see me in the morning
break" (in the episode 'Once Upon a Time') as "see me in the morning,
Drake" but the script (and careful listening) reveal the truth.
fAQ!
Maybe Leo and Pat were havin' a craic!! As Jack Nicholson put it,
almost as memorably as, "I'm not a number!" ............. "You can't
handle the truth!!"

Don't shoot the messenger!

If you recall, I simply suggested that he read it.

I also said nothing could prevent you from making up your own mind.

However, since no good deed goes unpunished, you're welcome! ;-)

Jill

[Moor Larkin]

Post by Jill Mills
Don't shoot the messenger!

Moor checks his empty holster
I'm not!! ;-))

If you think about it, I made sure that I was answering the FAQ - not
the helpful Jill Mills. At least that is evident froma Google-users
point of view. Of course I gather that some people do this Board via e-
mail to e-mail, so that might not be as evident to them. Perhaps the
first thing on the Board FAQ should be to stipulate how members will
communicate, so we all see and read the same thing..... I recall Loki
telling me that many Posters would never see half of what I
write.......... :-))))

[Jill Mills]

Post by Moor Larkin

Post by Jill Mills
Don't shoot the messenger!

Moor checks his empty holster
I'm not!! ;-))
If you think about it, I made sure that I was answering the FAQ - not
the helpful Jill Mills. At least that is evident froma Google-users
point of view. Of course I gather that some people do this Board via e-
mail to e-mail, so that might not be as evident to them. Perhaps the
first thing on the Board FAQ should be to stipulate how members will
communicate, so we all see and read the same thing..... I recall Loki
telling me that many Posters would never see half of what I
write.......... :-))))

You sound just like the man who should be writing FAQ 2007

[Moor Larkin]

On 9 Aug, 14:29, "Jill Mills" <***@NOSPAMvirgin.net> wrote: You
sound just like the man who should be writing FAQ 2007

:-)))
I don't know enough about the Prisoner for that.

Here's a perfect irony. For the last hour I haven't been able to post
on Google. It kept saying 'there was an error' .... :-))) No wonder
people can't be bothered with it :)

[Rick Davy]

"Moor Larkin" <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:***@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
faQ!
I would have thought ITC owned the copyright not Ralph Smart.
------------------------

ITC own the copyright to the finished product and residuals, Ralph Smart
owned the intellectual rights for the character and any subsequent
development of it. Same for The Prisoner. Granada own the copyright to the
finished product, but McGoohan actually still owns the rights to the Number
Six character, I believe.

Rick

[Moor Larkin]

On 9 Aug, 14:02, "Rick Davy" <***@NOSPAMbtopenworld.com> wrote:
Ralph Smart owned the intellectual rights for the character and any
subsequent development of it.


I noticed there was a post on mausoleumTV from two or three years ago
saying some official Body had money owing to Ralph Smart and did
anyone know where he was.... :-)))

Moor looks in the mirror:
Who owns John Drakes' face?
;-))

That particular FAQ rankles because the implication from it is that
McGoohan DID want Six to be John Drake whereas all the evidence seems
to be that he didn't. It also implies Ralph Smart was a penny-pinching
old spoiler and what little I've found out about him suggests he
wasn't. Third, it implies that the two chaps wouldn't have been able
to come to a cheery agreement between them, which I think they would,
as old comrades of long standing and mutual respect. Your version of
the FAQ, as a simple series of facts to consider, is perfectly
acceptable to me :)

[Gareth]

Post by Jill Mills
Some viewers mishear the Leo McKern line "see me
in the morning break" (in the episode 'Once Upon a Time') as "see me in the
morning, Drake" but the script (and careful listening) reveal the truth.

Some viewers certainly *do* mishear the Leo McKern line, including
whoever wrote that in the FAQ. It's "*report to my study* in the
morning break", not "see me in the morning break".

[Big Bill]

Post by Gareth

Post by Jill Mills
Some viewers mishear the Leo McKern line "see me
in the morning break" (in the episode 'Once Upon a Time') as "see me in the
morning, Drake" but the script (and careful listening) reveal the truth.

Some viewers certainly *do* mishear the Leo McKern line, including
whoever wrote that in the FAQ. It's "*report to my study* in the
morning break", not "see me in the morning break".

I thought he said "reaper tomb I, stud e'en the mourning brake."
After all the faqqing around we've done how much can we assume that
with the time double lives and cover-ups were possible. Part of the
Sixties was a culture of obscuring facts or supposed facts by
creative license. The Beatles did it and they tended to leave a lot
unexplained up to obsessed fans who studied death clues for years.

What Would, John Drake? It's not entirely impossible to be good
looking and into martial arts and to put on a pair of horn rims once
and awhile to look like a nerdy. scientist. These days I doubt
government workers would be that trim or sophisticated or sexy. I
think it's the media that has added this appeal 'with a little help
from their friends' As far as McGoohan is concerned it would be like
all of us being constantly hounded by our present employers about our
last job/position. It's like being told everyday "Go get your
shinebox." I'm sure he would not want association with his last
character/job.

John Drake is NO Six but part of the fun is winking at the audience
that he could be.

[Commander Gideon]

Post by Jill Mills

Post by Commander Gideon
Having watched a few episodes from Networks superb Danger Man DVD release,I
have come to the conclusion that No.6 is not John Drake.His accent in Danger
Man is almost American and very English in The Prisoner,agree or disagree?

Are you new to the series Commander Gideon?

Yes,new to Danger Man,have seen The Prisoner! I have bought quite a lot of
ITC dvds recently and love that telly era,Gideons Way with John Gregson is a
particular favourite.

[Jill Mills]

Post by Commander Gideon

Post by Jill Mills

Post by Commander Gideon
Having watched a few episodes from Networks superb Danger Man DVD release,I
have come to the conclusion that No.6 is not John Drake.His accent in Danger
Man is almost American and very English in The Prisoner,agree or

disagree?

Post by Jill Mills
Are you new to the series Commander Gideon?

Yes,new to Danger Man,have seen The Prisoner! I have bought quite a lot of
ITC dvds recently and love that telly era,Gideons Way with John Gregson is a
particular favourite.

I love that era too!

(Great fan of ITC series.)

Enjoy your DVDs :-)

Jill

[Moor Larkin]

On 9 Aug, 11:58, "Commander Gideon" <***@indigo.ie> wrote:
I have bought quite a lot of ITC dvds recently and love that telly
era,Gideons Way with John Gregson is a particular favourite.


:-)) I've got one episode of that on a compilation. It's great. John
Gregson is only in at the start and end, in his pipe and slippers at
home - while some other bloke does all the detecting and running
around :-)). It seemed an odd choice for a 'Best of' collection.....

If you want to see what John Drake did next, catch a series called
'Man in a Suitcase'. That's about a secret agent who got fired, rather
than who resigned. McGill (for such is his name) goes around resolving
people's problems like a Private Detective, but with secret agent
skills. Some of the scripts aren't a patch on Danger Man but the ethos
is similar and the star, Richard Bradford, is almost as magnetic as
McGoohan. It was arguably the show McGoohan might have made if he
hadn't moved on.........

[Commander Gideon]

Post by Moor Larkin
I have bought quite a lot of ITC dvds recently and love that telly
era,Gideons Way with John Gregson is a particular favourite.
:-)) I've got one episode of that on a compilation. It's great. John
Gregson is only in at the start and end, in his pipe and slippers at
home - while some other bloke does all the detecting and running
around :-)). It seemed an odd choice for a 'Best of' collection.....
If you want to see what John Drake did next, catch a series called
'Man in a Suitcase'. That's about a secret agent who got fired, rather
than who resigned. McGill (for such is his name) goes around resolving
people's problems like a Private Detective, but with secret agent
skills. Some of the scripts aren't a patch on Danger Man but the ethos
is similar and the star, Richard Bradford, is almost as magnetic as
McGoohan. It was arguably the show McGoohan might have made if he
hadn't moved on.........

I have that boxset as well,in fact i watched Man in a Suitcase and Gideons
Way on alternate nights last winter,loved them both.Bradford is compelling
and its a pity the series ended.I am currently watching the B&W episodes of
The Saint and the new Randall & Hopkirk (Deceased) boxset.

Thank goodness for Network for all these great releases!

[Nevin :-] Liber]

Post by Commander Gideon
Having watched a few episodes from Networks superb Danger Man DVD release,I
have come to the conclusion that No.6 is not John Drake.His accent in Danger
Man is almost American and very English in The Prisoner,agree or disagree?

John Drake is Number 12 and is killed of by Number 6 in The Schizoid Man.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it...

[tommcfearsom]

hello Folks

This good looking scientist might have been a model for No.6. He had
some sports back ground, was up to his ears in cold war politics and
oh yes he loved sailing and best of all he lived in a real high
security Village:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Oppenheimer

BCNU
Tommcfearsom

[Moor Larkin]

On 10 Aug, 08:31, tommcfearsom <***@aol.com> wrote: This good
looking scientist


In a TV book about Danger Man, Patrick McGoohan, in describing John
Drake, did remark, "he is a scientist" Mind you, wouldn't Oppenheimer
have had an episode called "I Am Become Death", rather than blaming it
on the girl..........

[tommcfearsom]

Post by tommcfearsom
looking scientist
In a TV book about Danger Man, Patrick McGoohan, in describing John
Drake, did remark, "he is a scientist" Mind you, wouldn't Oppenheimer
have had an episode called "I Am Become Death", rather than blaming it
on the girl..........

Hello Moor

Another episode title could be Destroyer of Worlds or if the Seltzman
tech was taken to an extreme I Am Becoming As The Girl Who Was Death.
What is good enough for Bruno ;-))).. and look at the rounds he went
with Tyson;-).. or Uncle Miltie.

BCNU
Tommcfearsom

[Dick Spanner]

Post by Commander Gideon
Having watched a few episodes from Networks superb Danger Man DVD release,I
have come to the conclusion that No.6 is not John Drake.His accent in Danger
Man is almost American and very English in The Prisoner,agree or disagree?