Patrick McGoohan - heavy drinking limited his career?

[Patently Obvious]

The following is from the rather shocking Patrick Macnee (The Avengers)
interview at Green Cine
http://www.greencine.com/article?action=view&articleID=94&pageID=180.

"Q: It seems as if the public identifies you with John Steed in much
the same way that Patrick McGoohan tends to be tied to his role on
Danger Man/Secret Agent, and later, The Prisoner. Do you feel fortunate
to have created this character that audiences have such an overwhelming
affinity for?

PM: Yeah, but I am nowhere near as good an actor as Pat McGoohan. Pat is
one of the best actors there's ever been. Trouble was, he drank. So it
limited his career."

(Mind you, Macnee also describes Linda Thorson thus "she was just
dreadful... I would have liked her to learn how to act"):

[Vandevere]

Post by Patently Obvious
The following is from the rather shocking Patrick Macnee (The Avengers)
interview at Green Cine
http://www.greencine.com/article?action=view&articleID=94&pageID=180.
"Q: It seems as if the public identifies you with John Steed in much
the same way that Patrick McGoohan tends to be tied to his role on
Danger Man/Secret Agent, and later, The Prisoner. Do you feel fortunate
to have created this character that audiences have such an overwhelming
affinity for?
PM: Yeah, but I am nowhere near as good an actor as Pat McGoohan. Pat is
one of the best actors there's ever been. Trouble was, he drank. So it
limited his career."
(Mind you, Macnee also describes Linda Thorson thus "she was just

That's the first I've ever heard of Patrick McGoohan having a drinking
problem. After all these years, wouldn't we have heard rumors apart
from that one reference?

Vandevere

[Frankymole]

Post by Vandevere

Post by Patently Obvious
The following is from the rather shocking Patrick Macnee (The Avengers)
interview at Green Cine

http://www.greencine.com/article?action=view&articleID=94&pageID=180.

Post by Vandevere

Post by Patently Obvious
"Q: It seems as if the public identifies you with John Steed in much
the same way that Patrick McGoohan tends to be tied to his role on
Danger Man/Secret Agent, and later, The Prisoner. Do you feel fortunate
to have created this character that audiences have such an

overwhelming

Post by Vandevere

Post by Patently Obvious
affinity for?
PM: Yeah, but I am nowhere near as good an actor as Pat McGoohan. Pat is
one of the best actors there's ever been. Trouble was, he drank. So it
limited his career."
(Mind you, Macnee also describes Linda Thorson thus "she was just

That's the first I've ever heard of Patrick McGoohan having a drinking
problem. After all these years, wouldn't we have heard rumors apart
from that one reference?

Hmm. Well we have been told he locked himself in a room with a crate of
whisky over 36 hours to write "Fall Out". Also he and Frank Maher
reputedly regularly had a beer together. What do you define as a
"problem"?

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by Frankymole

Post by Vandevere
That's the first I've ever heard of Patrick McGoohan having a drinking
problem. After all these years, wouldn't we have heard rumors apart
from that one reference?

Hmm. Well we have been told he locked himself in a room with a crate of
whisky over 36 hours to write "Fall Out". Also he and Frank Maher
reputedly regularly had a beer together. What do you define as a
"problem"?

I drink... I get drunk.... I fall over... no problem ;-)

Can we look at this logically a minute.....

Who is more likely to have a drink problem:- Some one who is at the top of
the profession and indeed *the* most highly paid actor at the time? Or
someone with no money living in a cardbox with no profession?

IMHO the comment/rumour is more likely to be professional jealous quip from
one Patrick to another, something taken out of context or perhaps he'd only
seen "Girl who was Death" and was judging him from the Doris scene ;-)

[Simes]

"Nigel Kitcher" <***@nkitcher.co.uk.zz> wrote in
message news:3fee5658$0$18041$***@news.dial.pipex.com...
?

Post by Nigel Kitcher

Post by Nigel Kitcher
Can we look at this logically a minute.....

Who is more likely to have a drink problem:- Some one who is at the top of
the profession and indeed *the* most highly paid actor at the time? Or
someone with no money living in a cardbox with no profession?

Speaking as someone who works in the medical profession, I can tell you
that the question posed above certainly has nothing to do with logic.

It is completely wrong to suggest - and I apologise if you are not
suggesting it - that its less likely that "*the* most highly paid actor"
will have a drink problem than "someone living in a cardboard box with
no profession". That's not logic - that's stereotyping.

Alcoholism is one of the biggest problems of our time and at present far
more endemic than drug taking. It knows no social barriers and you would
be astounded at the number of famous people - as well as all the
everyday people (whether living on the streets or not!) who are held in
its grip.

In other words, your statement above is total nonsense.

Simon

[John Pertwee]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2003 14:31:43 +0000 (UTC), "Simes"

Post by Nigel Kitcher
?

Post by Nigel Kitcher

Post by Nigel Kitcher
Can we look at this logically a minute.....

Who is more likely to have a drink problem:- Some one who is at the

top of

Post by Nigel Kitcher
the profession and indeed *the* most highly paid actor at the time? Or
someone with no money living in a cardbox with no profession?

Speaking as someone who works in the medical profession, I can tell you
that the question posed above certainly has nothing to do with logic.
It is completely wrong to suggest - and I apologise if you are not
suggesting it - that its less likely that "*the* most highly paid actor"
will have a drink problem than "someone living in a cardboard box with
no profession". That's not logic - that's stereotyping.
Alcoholism is one of the biggest problems of our time and at present far
more endemic than drug taking. It knows no social barriers and you would
be astounded at the number of famous people - as well as all the
everyday people (whether living on the streets or not!) who are held in
its grip.
In other words, your statement above is total nonsense.
Simon

It is easy to tell if you have a drinking problem. If you need the
drink, and not just want the drink, you have a problem.

[John W. Kennedy]

Post by John Pertwee
It is easy to tell if you have a drinking problem. If you need the
drink, and not just want the drink, you have a problem.

It's not quite that simple. An actor friend of mine used to get pretty
wasted on a regular basis until he was in his 40's. Then he noticed he
was developing memory problems, and instantly quit cold turkey. So he
never got from "want" to "need", but he still had a problem.

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by Nigel Kitcher

Post by Nigel Kitcher

Post by Nigel Kitcher
Can we look at this logically a minute.....

Who is more likely to have a drink problem:- Some one who is at the

top of

Post by Nigel Kitcher
the profession and indeed *the* most highly paid actor at the time? Or
someone with no money living in a cardbox with no profession?

Speaking as someone who works in the medical profession, I can tell you
that the question posed above certainly has nothing to do with logic.
It is completely wrong to suggest - and I apologise if you are not
suggesting it - that its less likely that "*the* most highly paid actor"
will have a drink problem than "someone living in a cardboard box with
no profession". That's not logic - that's stereotyping.

So the fact that smokers *appear* to have a high level of lung cancer
problems is due to stereotyping rather than the logical fact they are are
smoking? ;-)

Seriously, this thread seems to have missed original question which *wasnt*
does McGoohan have/had a drink problem but did it limit his career.

The point I was making was if he was getting work (which he obviously was),
then he obviously didnt have a *career limiting* drink problem. If he wasnt
getting work then a *career limiting drink problem* could be a perfectly
valid reason -leaving the side that he cant act to save his life outside of
a stereotypical role which admittingly he is excelllent at doing.

Now I dont know how anyone is defining a limited career - after all he
worked on (after Priz): Zebra (68), Mary (71), Silver Streak (76), Man in
Iron (76), Alcatraz (79), Scanners (81), Kings (83), Three Sovs (85), Baby
(85) etc....

[Steve Dix]

On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 03:06:04 -0000, "Nigel Kitcher"

Post by Nigel Kitcher
The point I was making was if he was getting work (which he obviously was),
then he obviously didnt have a *career limiting* drink problem. If he wasnt
getting work then a *career limiting drink problem* could be a perfectly
valid reason -leaving the side that he cant act to save his life outside of
a stereotypical role which admittingly he is excelllent at doing.
Now I dont know how anyone is defining a limited career - after all he
worked on (after Priz): Zebra (68), Mary (71), Silver Streak (76), Man in
Iron (76), Alcatraz (79), Scanners (81), Kings (83), Three Sovs (85), Baby
(85) etc....

I think the point is that the only thing that limited Patrick
McGoohan's career was Patrick McGoohan himself. After Dangerman he
was the highest-paid actor in the country, and so probably didn't need
to take every role that came his way, "cherrypicking" parts instead.

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by Steve Dix

Post by Nigel Kitcher
The point I was making was if he was getting work (which he obviously was),
then he obviously didnt have a *career limiting* drink problem. If he wasnt
getting work then a *career limiting drink problem* could be a perfectly
valid reason -leaving the side that he cant act to save his life outside of
a stereotypical role which admittingly he is excelllent at doing.
Now I dont know how anyone is defining a limited career - after all he
worked on (after Priz): Zebra (68), Mary (71), Silver Streak (76), Man in
Iron (76), Alcatraz (79), Scanners (81), Kings (83), Three Sovs (85), Baby
(85) etc....

I think the point is that the only thing that limited Patrick
McGoohan's career was Patrick McGoohan himself. After Dangerman he
was the highest-paid actor in the country, and so probably didn't need
to take every role that came his way, "cherrypicking" parts instead.

..and of course theres only one way to go from the top ;-)

[John W. Kennedy]

Post by Nigel Kitcher
Who is more likely to have a drink problem:- Some one who is at the top of
the profession and indeed *the* most highly paid actor at the time? Or
someone with no money living in a cardbox with no profession?

You don't know many actors, do you?

(Now, as to whether the story is true or not -- I have no idea. But to
argue that PMcG _couldn't_ have had a drinking problem _because_ he was
a high-flying actor.... Trust me, it ain't that unlikely.)

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by John W. Kennedy

Post by Nigel Kitcher
Who is more likely to have a drink problem:- Some one who is at the top of
the profession and indeed *the* most highly paid actor at the time? Or
someone with no money living in a cardbox with no profession?

You don't know many actors, do you?

don't I ? ;-)

Post by John W. Kennedy
(Now, as to whether the story is true or not -- I have no idea. But to
argue that PMcG _couldn't_ have had a drinking problem _because_ he was
a high-flying actor.... Trust me, it ain't that unlikely.)

As I said in another post - the argument is the "heavy drinking limited his
career...." not "heavy drinking" per se.

If he was a highly flying actor then he was obviously turning up bright eyed
and bushy tailed in the morning (oops we're talking film peeps here <g>, mid
morning) then regardless of what/how much he drank the night before its not
a "problem" and didnt "limit his career".

[Al Samujh]

Post by Patently Obvious

Post by Vandevere

Post by Patently Obvious
The following is from the rather shocking Patrick Macnee (The

Avengers)

Post by Vandevere

Post by Patently Obvious
interview at Green Cine

http://www.greencine.com/article?action=view&articleID=94&pageID=180.

Post by Vandevere

Post by Patently Obvious
"Q: It seems as if the public identifies you with John Steed in

much

Post by Vandevere

Post by Patently Obvious
the same way that Patrick McGoohan tends to be tied to his role on
Danger Man/Secret Agent, and later, The Prisoner. Do you feel

fortunate

Post by Vandevere

Post by Patently Obvious
to have created this character that audiences have such an

overwhelming

Post by Vandevere

Post by Patently Obvious
affinity for?
PM: Yeah, but I am nowhere near as good an actor as Pat McGoohan.

Pat is

Post by Vandevere

Post by Patently Obvious
one of the best actors there's ever been. Trouble was, he drank. So

it

Post by Vandevere

Post by Patently Obvious
limited his career."
(Mind you, Macnee also describes Linda Thorson thus "she was just

That's the first I've ever heard of Patrick McGoohan having a drinking
problem. After all these years, wouldn't we have heard rumors apart
from that one reference?

Hmm. Well we have been told he locked himself in a room with a crate of
whisky over 36 hours to write "Fall Out". Also he and Frank Maher
reputedly regularly had a beer together.

I have been told that after work on Danger Man PMG and senior production
staff were known to journey round local hostelries topping off the day with
a few whiskies and, "putting the world to rights..."

I have also seen 'between seasons' photos where he appeared to be carrying a
few extra pounds and MIGHT have been having a good time the night before !

Whether there's been anything 'significant' that caused work problems, I
know not - but I suspect that in his heyday he could've held his own with
most of the more notorious hard drinking lads in his profession at the time.


Smudge ;-)


Smudge ;-)






What do you define as a

Post by Patently Obvious
"problem"?
--
Frankymole
~~~~~~~~
http://www.web-sighted.co.uk/franks/faq.html
Information about Six of One, the disgraced Prisoner Appreciation
http://www.sixofone-info.co.uk/

[JamesStep]

Post by Frankymole
Well we have been told he locked himself in a
room with a crate of whisky over 36 hours to
write "Fall Out"

As a newcomer to this discussion group, I hesitate to chose this
particular topic for my first post, but here goes...

I have no idea if Patrick McGoohan had a drinking problem or not,
but it might help explain some of the things that happened during
production of the series. According to the book "The Prisoner"
by Carraze and Oswald, "Patrick McGoohan was getting increasingly
involved in [producing the series]... and the style of the later
episodes is noticeably different and more bizarre from that of
the earlier ones. The production began to suffer..." A few
paragraphs later it mentions Patrick's "erratic attitude" and
says that producer George Markstein was so displeased by
events that he decided to leave the series.

Personally I've always felt that the series declined in its later
episodes. Yes, the later episodes were creative and thought-
provoking, but they were also increasingly bizarre and not as
well-written, in my opinion, as the earlier episodes, and I think
a lot of the responsibility for that falls on McGoohan's shoulders.

If Patrick did indeed have a drinking problem, then it might
have been a contributing factor to some of the problems the
show ran into. And it's quite possible that friends and crew
members wouldn't talk about it in public. For example, Dick
Van Dyke had a drinking problem most of his life, but it didn't
become public until he started talking about it himself a few
years ago.

James



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Remove "NOSPAM" from my address when sending me e-mail.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
-

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by JamesStep
If Patrick did indeed have a drinking problem, then it might
have been a contributing factor to some of the problems the
show ran into.

The series IMHO ran into problems unrelated to any drinking problem and I
would argue that the pressure to "wrap it up" would make anyone turn to
alcohol/chocolate etc.

The series was always going to have problems for starters where the "hero"
loses every week wouldnt have been very popular, especially in the US
market.

Having a series limited to one location was equally always going to be a
problem in terms of storylines even if it is a cheap set option (which is
why Dr Who became earth bound afterall)

Post by JamesStep
And it's quite possible that friends and crew
members wouldn't talk about it in public. For example, Dick
Van Dyke had a drinking problem most of his life, but it didn't
become public until he started talking about it himself a few
years ago.

wasnt career limiting tho was it?

Mr Dolomite wouldnt be the same if it wasnt for Dick Van Dyke ;-)

[roger]

Post by Nigel Kitcher
Having a series limited to one location was equally always going to be a
problem in terms of storylines

I thought soaps ran for years on this basis!
:-)

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by roger

Post by Nigel Kitcher
Having a series limited to one location was equally always going to be a
problem in terms of storylines

I thought soaps ran for years on this basis!
:-)

If Priz copied Corrie and repeated the same storyline every fews years I
think it would be get abit dull abit quick.....

Mrs Butterworth: More cake?
"Peter Smith": Nah thanks, but see you next year ;-)

[MasterOfUnnormal]

<< Subject: Re: Patrick McGoohan - heavy drinking limited his career?
From: "Nigel Kitcher" ***@nkitcher.co.uk.zz
Date: Mon, Dec 29, 2003 7:27 pm

Post by roger

Post by Nigel Kitcher
Having a series limited to one location was equally always going to be a
problem in terms of storylines

I thought soaps ran for years on this basis!
:-)

If Priz copied Corrie and repeated the same storyline every fews years I
think it would be get abit dull abit quick.....

Mrs Butterworth: More cake?
"Peter Smith": Nah thanks, but see you next year ;-)
many many more happy reruns;-)

(OT sorry!) Prisoner soap essentials/scenarios:
1)Failed comedian/pop star as No2 (Chesney!?;-) ).
2)Maid has abortion/&/or/'lovechild' of No2/&/or/No6
3)No12 realises that it was all a dream.
4) Moke crashes into sea in shock cliffhanger.
5) The 'Cat and Mouse' becomes focal point.
6) Disfunctional family move into 'Ladies Lodge'
7) Australian actor becomes a regular (oops, been done!)
8) Number Six confesses all over cup of tea but no one believes him for further
twenty episodes
9) There's an obligitory light hearted christmas not-so-special.
10) Pat McG does 'Dem Bones' as charity single

Now -there's the true meaning of hell;-)


"Snow fun at all really"

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by MasterOfUnnormal
2)Maid has abortion/&/or/'lovechild' of No2/&/or/No6

Can I be No.2/No.6's stunt double for this one? ;-)

[Frankymole]

Post by Nigel Kitcher

Post by MasterOfUnnormal
2)Maid has abortion/&/or/'lovechild' of No2/&/or/No6

Can I be No.2/No.6's stunt double for this one? ;-)

The maid might be Patsy Smart!

[MasterOfUnnormal]

<< Subject: Re: Patrick McGoohan - heavy drinking limited his career?
From: "Frankymole" ***@Askfor it on the group.com
Date: Tue, Dec 30, 2003 8:02 pm

Post by Nigel Kitcher

Post by MasterOfUnnormal
2)Maid has abortion/&/or/'lovechild' of No2/&/or/No6

Can I be No.2/No.6's stunt double for this one? ;-)

The maid might be Patsy Smart! >>


At least she wouldn't be Patsy Palmer;-)
(Curse those damn Eastenders - they need the Sweeney to barge onto the set an'
tell 'em all to
"shut it!!!!!!";-)

"Snow fun at all really"

[MR DOLEMITE]

Good luck will rub off when I shakes 'ands with you !

[Jonathan Blum]

Post by Nigel Kitcher
The series was always going to have problems for starters where the
"hero" loses every week wouldnt have been very popular, especially in
the US market.

...you mean the market which made "The Fugitive" a success story which
spawned a thousand imitators? :-) Even in its short run, you can
already see "The Prisoner" trying to find ways to give its hero
victories in the "Fugitive" style, even if the overall situation has
to remain at a status quo -- by the third aired episode, he's already
foiling Village plots. (From "It's Your Funeral" to "Hammer Into
Anvil" in production order, the episodes are consistently outright
successes from 6's POV, with the escape angle downplayed.)

Basically, while it's true that the Americans would frown on a series
which seemed hopeless, there were ways to present the story so that
this wasn't an audience-defeating issue. Heck, if "Gilligan's Island"
could manage it...

As for Patrick McGoohan having a drinking problem -- ISTR comments in
Rob Fairclough's book that he admitted later that he was a bit of a
hellraiser in his younger years, but it's worth remembering that
drinking doesn't directly translate into a drinking *problem*. And
from the limited available evidence, I can't say there's any sign of
hard living impairing his actual work -- all the behind-the-scenes
reports show him as being 110-percent dedicated to every phase of
"Prisoner" production. I'd say a more likely limiting factor on his
career would be his one-man-band tendencies -- after "The Prisoner",
he'd probably have more of a reputation as an unhinged auteur,
difficult to work with and prone to production extravagances, than
someone who can't do the job of acting or directing.

What I'm more interested in is the question of why he didn't get more
directing gigs after "Catch My Soul"...

Regards,
Jon Blum

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by Jonathan Blum

Post by Nigel Kitcher
The series was always going to have problems for starters where the
"hero" loses every week wouldnt have been very popular, especially in
the US market.

-- by the third aired episode, he's already

Post by Jonathan Blum
foiling Village plots. (From "It's Your Funeral" to "Hammer Into
Anvil" in production order, the episodes are consistently outright
successes from 6's POV, with the escape angle downplayed.)

True - but "Funeral" is not a good "Prisoner-style" episode at all and has
so many inconsistencies with the rest of the episodes that I wouldnt use it
in any argument - except perhaps to say how lovely Annette Andre is ;-)

As for "Hammer" - again - well that just good family entertainment... not a
true Prisoner episode either.

IMHO Prisoner is fundementally the Arrival, Chimes, Checkmate, etc type of
stories

[Jonathan Blum]

Post by Jonathan Blum
-- by the third aired episode, he's already

Post by Jonathan Blum
foiling Village plots. (From "It's Your Funeral" to "Hammer Into
Anvil" in production order, the episodes are consistently outright
successes from 6's POV, with the escape angle downplayed.)

True - but "Funeral" is not a good "Prisoner-style" episode at all and has
so many inconsistencies with the rest of the episodes that I wouldnt use
it in any argument - except perhaps to say how lovely Annette Andre is ;-)
As for "Hammer" - again - well that just good family entertainment... not
a true Prisoner episode either.

The thing is, you're presuming that there's a "true Prisoner" as a
fixed ideal, when in fact when the show was being made "The Prisoner"
was still a moving target, capable of evolving as they went on with
production. The fact that "Living In Harmony" or even "A B & C" are
worlds apart from "Dance of the Dead" and "Free For All" doesn't make
one "true" and the other "false"; it's a sign that the boundaries of
what "The Prisoner" was were being pushed, and continued to be pushed
right up to the last minute (or rather, the 17th hour).

And if you look at the stories in production order, you're talking
about a run of five episodes -- "It's Your Funeral", "A Change Of
Mind", "A B & C", "The General", "Hammer Into Anvil" -- in which
Number 6 is clearly painted as the victor despite still remaining in
the Village environment. It's a definite new perspective on the
series format, following the first batch of escape-oriented,
relentlessly downbeat episodes... escape is hardly mentioned, even
Rover pretty much vanishes, and the emphasis is on Number 6 playing
and *winning* mind games against the Village. The second shooting
block, such as it is, continues this trend -- the losers in "Harmony"
are Number 2 and his conspirators, and "Girl Who Was Death" is a big
raspberry blown at the authorities. They're certainly not going for a
sense that the hero loses every week.

I don't think they consciously made these changes to the style to make
the show palatable to the American market -- but I do think there was
a conscious attempt to change direction at that point, to look for
stories beyond the escape of the week, the defeat of the week, and to
add more individual-positive elements to the relentlessly Kafkaesque
defeatism of the first batch. And I certainly don't think that hurt
the show in America...

Post by Jonathan Blum
IMHO Prisoner is fundementally the Arrival, Chimes, Checkmate, etc
type of stories

I'd say that's a fan-ideal argument rather than a show-based one --
you're trying to define an ideal "Prisoner", I'm talking about the
approach of the whole of the TV series "The Prisoner" as it actually
was. (It probably helps that I like pretty much all the different
approaches the series took -- even the two shoddiest episodes in my
eyes, "Funeral" and "Do Not Forsake Me", have more to recommend them
than most of the contemporary equivalents!)

Cheers,
Jon Blum

[Brian Watson]

Post by Jonathan Blum
What I'm more interested in is the question of why he didn't get more
directing gigs after "Catch My Soul"...

Because I believe (based on what I recall of reviews at the time) it stank.

It was a fairly rum choice for a project anyway and it may be he was just
the wrong person for the job.

--
Brian
"When all about you is crumbling, when the arse is falling out of your
world, you need to focus on something positive in your life. Something you
can control, improve even."

[DhDowning]

<< Personally I've always felt that the series declined in its later
episodes. Yes, the later episodes were creative and thought-
provoking, but they were also increasingly bizarre and not as
well-written, in my opinion, as the earlier episodes, >>

Are you going according to the original broadcast order of the episides, or the
new order used in the A&E release?

[Frankymole]

Post by DhDowning
<< Personally I've always felt that the series declined in its later
episodes. Yes, the later episodes were creative and thought-
provoking, but they were also increasingly bizarre and not as
well-written, in my opinion, as the earlier episodes, >>
Are you going according to the original broadcast order of the

episides, or the

Post by DhDowning
new order used in the A&E release?

There's not really an original broadcast order, because it was first
shown in the UK, but in the 'wrong' order compared to the US...

See FAQ for details...

[DhDowning]

<<
That's the first I've ever heard of Patrick McGoohan having a drinking
problem. After all these years, wouldn't we have heard rumors apart
from that one reference? >>


David Cronenberg talks about it in CRONENBERG ON CRONENBERG, with regard to
SCANNERS.

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by Vandevere
<<
That's the first I've ever heard of Patrick McGoohan having a drinking
problem. After all these years, wouldn't we have heard rumors apart
from that one reference? >>
David Cronenberg talks about it in CRONENBERG ON CRONENBERG, with regard to
SCANNERS.

"Scanners" is enough to turn anyone to drink..... and as for "Baby" ;-)

[Rufus]

In the authorized Clint Eastwood biography released a few years back,
there is an account of McGoohan's heavy drinking on the set of ESCAPE
FROM ALCATRAZ. A TIME TO KILL was filmed near my hometown, and a
friend who worked on the film did say that McGoohan was known to kick
back with the whiskey in his trailer. But he also said he was the
nicest actor on the set. How this would hold your career back, I'm
not sure.

[JamesStep]

Post by Rufus
there is an account of McGoohan's heavy drinking
on the set of ESCAPE FROM ALCATRAZ. ...[but]
how this would hold your career back, I'm not sure.

Many of McGoohan's roles in movies were as a supporting
actor rather than the lead actor (Alcatraz, Silver Streak,
Braveheart, etc.). If studio executives knew he was a heavy
drinker, it's possible that they were willing to hire him for
supporting roles but were more hesitant to hire him for
leading roles, thus limiting his career.

James


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Remove "NOSPAM" from my address when sending me e-mail.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
-

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by JamesStep

Post by Rufus
there is an account of McGoohan's heavy drinking
on the set of ESCAPE FROM ALCATRAZ. ...[but]
how this would hold your career back, I'm not sure.

Many of McGoohan's roles in movies were as a supporting
actor rather than the lead actor (Alcatraz, Silver Streak,
Braveheart, etc.). If studio executives knew he was a heavy
drinker, it's possible that they were willing to hire him for
supporting roles but were more hesitant to hire him for
leading roles, thus limiting his career.

Leading roles in those films would not have suited McGoohans character -
cant see him playing opposite RIchard Pryor or Gene Wilder

[MR DOLEMITE]

What's wrong with liking a drink?
Tee-totals are missing out anyway !
I was tee-total for over a year...............
NEVER AGAIN !

Pints+Pies

[Rick Davy]

Post by MR DOLEMITE
What's wrong with liking a drink?
Tee-totals are missing out anyway !

How?

Rick

[Brian Watson]

Post by MR DOLEMITE
What's wrong with liking a drink?
Tee-totals are missing out anyway !

How?

Wake up with a hangover and the day can only get better.

--
Brian
"What's the point in growing up if you can't behave like a kid when you want
to."

[MR DOLEMITE]

Ever played 'Pull a Pig' sober?

: )

[Rick Davy]

Post by MR DOLEMITE
Ever played 'Pull a Pig' sober?
: )

Can't see the pigs for the foxes, Daz. ;-)

Rick

[MasterOfUnnormal]

<< Subject: Re: Patrick McGoohan - heavy drinking limited his career?
From: "Rick Davy" ***@NOSPAMbtopenworld.com
Date: Tue, Dec 30, 2003 2:48 pm

Post by MR DOLEMITE
Ever played 'Pull a Pig' sober?
: )

Can't see the pigs for the foxes, Daz. ;-)

Rick
My pigs come gift wrapped in pastry, Daz;-)

Did anyone ever see 'Catch my Soul'? Managed to get the LP recently - but have
only been vaguely aware of this project through the last twenty years or so.
Don't have a clue whether it was any good or not!

"Snow fun at all really"

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by Rick Davy

Post by MR DOLEMITE
Ever played 'Pull a Pig' sober?
: )

Can't see the pigs for the foxes, Daz. ;-)
Rick

Is that Basil Bush? ;-)

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by Rick Davy

Post by MR DOLEMITE
Ever played 'Pull a Pig' sober?
: )

Can't see the pigs for the foxes, Daz. ;-)
Rick

So you agreeing with me now then that Patsy Palmer is one foxy chick?

[Rick Davy]

Post by Nigel Kitcher

Post by Rick Davy

Post by MR DOLEMITE
Ever played 'Pull a Pig' sober?
: )

Can't see the pigs for the foxes, Daz. ;-)
Rick

So you agreeing with me now then that Patsy Palmer is one foxy chick?

Eh? I hardly think so.

Rick

[NEHooligan]

Post by MasterOfUnnormal
Subject: Re: Patrick McGoohan - heavy drinking limited his career?
Date: 12/30/2003 1:03 AM Mountain Standard Time

Post by MR DOLEMITE
What's wrong with liking a drink?
Tee-totals are missing out anyway !

How?

Wake up with a hangover and the day can only get better.
--
Brian
"What's the point in growing up if you can't behave like a kid when you want
to."

In the words of the immortal Ernie Kovacs:

"Pity the abstainer."

[MasterOfUnnormal]

<< Subject: Re: Patrick McGoohan - heavy drinking limited his career?
From: ***@aol.com (NEHooligan)
Date: Tue, Dec 30, 2003 4:22 pm

Post by MasterOfUnnormal
Subject: Re: Patrick McGoohan - heavy drinking limited his career?
Date: 12/30/2003 1:03 AM Mountain Standard Time

Post by MR DOLEMITE
What's wrong with liking a drink?
Tee-totals are missing out anyway !

How?

Wake up with a hangover and the day can only get better.
--
Brian
"What's the point in growing up if you can't behave like a kid when you want
to."

In the words of the immortal Ernie Kovacs:

"Pity the abstainer."
Yeh, right, especially the NEXT MORNING!!!!;-)
Pity the wallet - it's so damn expensive to be teetotal;-(

"Snow fun at all really"

[Rick Davy]

Post by NEHooligan

Post by Brian Watson

Post by MR DOLEMITE
What's wrong with liking a drink?
Tee-totals are missing out anyway !

How?

Wake up with a hangover and the day can only get better.
--
Brian
"What's the point in growing up if you can't behave like a kid when you want
to."

"Pity the abstainer."

I think that having a personality and sense of enjoyment so strong that one
doesn't need alcohol to give one the confidence to bring it out is something
to be congratulated. Also saves you a hell of a lot of money.

Rick

[MasterOfUnnormal]

<< Subject: Re: Patrick McGoohan - heavy drinking limited his career?
From: "Rick Davy" ***@NOSPAMbtopenworld.com
Date: Tue, Dec 30, 2003 5:40 pm

Post by NEHooligan

Post by Brian Watson

Post by MR DOLEMITE
What's wrong with liking a drink?
Tee-totals are missing out anyway !

How?

Wake up with a hangover and the day can only get better.
--
Brian
"What's the point in growing up if you can't behave like a kid when you want
to."

"Pity the abstainer."

I think that having a personality and sense of enjoyment so strong that one
doesn't need alcohol to give one the confidence to bring it out is something
to be congratulated. Also saves you a hell of a lot of money.

Rick
Finding Patsy Palmer attractive is a good indicator for staying sober IMHO!
Shows how much alcohol impairs judgement!

I agree Rick, however - not sure about the saving money though - with all this
anti teetotal prejudice and inflated pub prices!

"Snow fun at all really"

[Rick Davy]

"MasterOfUnnormal" <***@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message >
Finding Patsy Palmer attractive is a good indicator for staying sober IMHO!

Post by MasterOfUnnormal
Shows how much alcohol impairs judgement!
I agree Rick, however - not sure about the saving money though - with all this
anti teetotal prejudice and inflated pub prices!
"Snow fun at all really"

I find Patsy Palmer about as attractive as a pile of horse sh*t. Don't know
where you've got that idea from. If you do a google archive search for Rick
+ Patsy you'll find many references to my hatred of her.

Rick

[MasterOfUnnormal]

<< Subject: Re: Patrick McGoohan - heavy drinking limited his career?
From: "Rick Davy" ***@NOSPAMbtopenworld.com
Date: Tue, Dec 30, 2003 10:34 pm
Message-id: <bssugs$1jf$***@hercules.btinternet.com>


"MasterOfUnnormal" <***@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message >
Finding Patsy Palmer attractive is a good indicator for staying sober IMHO!

Post by MasterOfUnnormal
Shows how much alcohol impairs judgement!
I agree Rick, however - not sure about the saving money though - with all this
anti teetotal prejudice and inflated pub prices!
"Snow fun at all really"

I find Patsy Palmer about as attractive as a pile of horse sh*t. Don't know
where you've got that idea from. If you do a google archive search for Rick
+ Patsy you'll find many references to my hatred of her.

Rick >>


You mis read me Rick - I was politely commenting that you'd have to be p*ssed
to find her anything other than you have so eloquently described her! Therefor
us 'sober' ones have the advantage of not finding her attractive;-)

Where's me google search......

"Snow fun at all really"

[MasterOfUnnormal]

<< Subject: Re: Patrick McGoohan - heavy drinking limited his career?
From: ***@aol.comNOSPAM (MasterOfUnnormal)
Date: Tue, Dec 30, 2003 10:41 pm
Message-id: <***@mb-m01.aol.com>

<< Subject: Re: Patrick McGoohan - heavy drinking limited his career?
From: "Rick Davy" ***@NOSPAMbtopenworld.com
Date: Tue, Dec 30, 2003 10:34 pm
Message-id: <bssugs$1jf$***@hercules.btinternet.com>


"MasterOfUnnormal" <***@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message >
Finding Patsy Palmer attractive is a good indicator for staying sober IMHO!

Post by MasterOfUnnormal
Shows how much alcohol impairs judgement!
I agree Rick, however - not sure about the saving money though - with all this
anti teetotal prejudice and inflated pub prices!
"Snow fun at all really"

I find Patsy Palmer about as attractive as a pile of horse sh*t. Don't know
where you've got that idea from. If you do a google archive search for Rick
+ Patsy you'll find many references to my hatred of her.

Rick >>


You mis read me Rick - I was politely commenting that you'd have to be p*ssed
to find her anything other than you have so eloquently described her! Therefor
us 'sober' ones have the advantage of not finding her attractive;-)

Where's me google search......

"Snow fun at all really"
According to Google BTW - you are a Harvard educated Architect (with a dislike
of whiney cockny bints who exclaim rickeeeeeeeee every five minutes);-)

"Snow fun at all really"

[MR DOLEMITE]

Patsy's alright !
I would. : )

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by MR DOLEMITE
Patsy's alright !
I would. : )

After me mate!

[MasterOfUnnormal]

<< Subject: Re: Patrick McGoohan - heavy drinking limited his career?
From: "Nigel Kitcher" ***@nkitcher.co.uk.zz
Date: Fri, Jan 2, 2004 1:46 pm

Post by MR DOLEMITE
Patsy's alright !
I would. : )

After me mate!
Cheer - you'd be doing the 'sober' ones of us a big favour;-)

"Snow fun at all really"

[Sara Whittle]

Post by MasterOfUnnormal
<< Subject: Re: Patrick McGoohan - heavy drinking limited his career?
Date: Fri, Jan 2, 2004 1:46 pm

Post by MR DOLEMITE
Patsy's alright !
I would. : )

After me mate!
Cheer - you'd be doing the 'sober' ones of us a big favour;-)
"Snow fun at all really"

I think maybe her husband may have something to say about that - but hey
that's reality for you!!! ;o)

[David Mackenzie]

On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 13:46:49 -0000, "Nigel Kitcher"

Post by Nigel Kitcher

Post by MR DOLEMITE
Patsy's alright !
I would. : )

After me mate!

And what would Bettine have to say about THAT?

[Frankymole]

Post by David Mackenzie
On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 13:46:49 -0000, "Nigel Kitcher"

Post by Nigel Kitcher

Post by MR DOLEMITE
Patsy's alright !
I would. : )

After me mate!

And what would Bettine have to say about THAT?

Sloppy seconds in more ways than one...?

[Rick Davy]

Post by MasterOfUnnormal
You mis read me Rick - I was politely commenting that you'd have to be p*ssed
to find her anything other than you have so eloquently described her! Therefor
us 'sober' ones have the advantage of not finding her attractive;-)
Where's me google search......
"Snow fun at all really"

Ah - apologies, Matt.

Rick

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by MasterOfUnnormal
Finding Patsy Palmer attractive is a good indicator for staying sober IMHO!

Post by MasterOfUnnormal
Shows how much alcohol impairs judgement!
I agree Rick, however - not sure about the saving money though - with

all

Post by MasterOfUnnormal
this

Post by MasterOfUnnormal
anti teetotal prejudice and inflated pub prices!
"Snow fun at all really"

I find Patsy Palmer about as attractive as a pile of horse sh*t. Don't know
where you've got that idea from. If you do a google archive search for Rick
+ Patsy you'll find many references to my hatred of her.
Rick

heheheh - well you said you can only see foxes and I thought she was one of
your local pub attendees - I think shes great :-))

"RRiiicckkkkyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!" heehehhehehh

[Rick Davy]

Post by Nigel Kitcher
heheheh - well you said you can only see foxes and I thought she was one of
your local pub attendees - I think shes great :-))
"RRiiicckkkkyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!" heehehhehehh

You think she's great because you have no taste in women, Nige. ;-)

No, she doesn't drink in my local (she came in once about 10 years ago). I
think you're getting her mixed up with some other Eastenders peeps who used
to be regulars until they moved recently.

Rick

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by Rick Davy

Post by Nigel Kitcher
heheheh - well you said you can only see foxes and I thought she was one

of

Post by Nigel Kitcher
your local pub attendees - I think shes great :-))
"RRiiicckkkkyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!" heehehhehehh

You think she's great because you have no taste in women, Nige. ;-)

Good job I didnt mention Kat then ;-)

[NEHooligan]

Post by Rick Davy
I think that having a personality and sense of enjoyment so strong that one
doesn't need alcohol to give one the confidence to bring it out is something
to be congratulated. Also saves you a hell of a lot of money.
Rick

Rick,

There's a difference between enjoying alcoholic beverages and being a binge
drinker, or one who finds his courage in a bottle.

Whether it be quaffing s fine ale, sipping a classic wine, or, even, indulging
in a shot of fine Scotch, the abstainer does, in fact, miss out on these
experiences.
.

[MasterOfUnnormal]

<< Subject: Re: Patrick McGoohan - heavy drinking limited his career?
From: ***@aol.com (NEHooligan)
Date: Wed, Dec 31, 2003 4:18 am

Post by Rick Davy
I think that having a personality and sense of enjoyment so strong that one
doesn't need alcohol to give one the confidence to bring it out is something
to be congratulated. Also saves you a hell of a lot of money.
Rick

Rick,

There's a difference between enjoying alcoholic beverages and being a binge
drinker, or one who finds his courage in a bottle.

Whether it be quaffing s fine ale, sipping a classic wine, or, even, indulging
in a shot of fine Scotch, the abstainer does, in fact, miss out on these
experiences.
. >>


If one cant abide the taste of alcohol even, then there isn't an awful lot of
missing out, I can assure you;-)

"Snow fun at all really"

[Alan Jones]

***@aol.comNOSPAM (MasterOfUnnormal) wrote in message

<snip>

Post by MasterOfUnnormal
If one cant abide the taste of alcohol even, then there isn't an awful lot of
missing out, I can assure you;-)
"Snow fun at all really"

Still playing ""catch up" with the threads after my *internet*
abstinence over Christmas but thought it was time to join this one
with a few just about connected musings....

As someone who enjoys a drink (gasps of shock! horror!) I suppose I'm
expected to join in on the side of saying that letting go now and
again is a good idea. Never that simple is it?....

Yes, I like a drink. Don't like hearing people say they "need" one
though. Some days I drink, others I don't. Christmas at my parents
(almost two weeks) and I had 1 pint of lager with lunch at a pub in
Chester, a whisky now and then with my newly repaired Dad and a coupla
glasses of Portmeirion champagne with Mum and Dad on New Year's Eve.
Hardly excessive.

First night back at my flat, went out..... 5 pints! I've had nights in
since though and not felt the "need" for drink despite being back at
work and therefore reunited with the little darling children of
Anfield :-)

It's terribly incorrect to class tee-totallers as "sober" and drinkers
as not (Matt). I'm sober as I write this and not shaking over the
keyboard either!

Drinking can be a problem for many however and it's important to
recognise alcoholism as a disease, alright, self-inflicted, but still
something that requires compassion and help.

Just a brief sample of regular posters....
Nige likes a decent pint (Flowers, is it, Nige?).
Daz enjoys a drink, I believe ;-)
Rick doesn't drink.
Matthew doesn't drink.
Ronnie likes a Guiness.
Al is a lager lout!

It makes no difference when we are chatting here or elsewhere about
other stuff though, does it?

I don't think Rick or Matthew are missing out on anything because they
don't view it that way. I also don't get drunk anymore. Hate it. May
get a little loose sometimes though!

Back on topic (sorry for my rambling) PMG seemed to choose his roles
in his career. He *was* known for enjoying a drink or three. That's
his business. I don't think he's short of a few dollars anyway and
hope that he is in good health.

Oh and by the way, Matthew. I assume you meant that you don't like the
taste of alcoholic *drinks*. I think you'll find most people don't
even know what alcohol itself tastes like unless they sadly have the
most severe of drink problems.

Gotta go. Off for a pint with Mark and Ronnie!

Al

[Frankymole]

Post by Alan Jones
<snip>

Post by MasterOfUnnormal
If one cant abide the taste of alcohol even, then there isn't an awful lot of
missing out, I can assure you;-)
"Snow fun at all really"

Still playing ""catch up" with the threads after my *internet*
abstinence over Christmas but thought it was time to join this one
with a few just about connected musings....
As someone who enjoys a drink (gasps of shock! horror!) I suppose I'm
expected to join in on the side of saying that letting go now and
again is a good idea. Never that simple is it?....
Yes, I like a drink. Don't like hearing people say they "need" one
though. Some days I drink, others I don't. Christmas at my parents
(almost two weeks) and I had 1 pint of lager with lunch at a pub in
Chester, a whisky now and then with my newly repaired Dad and a coupla
glasses of Portmeirion champagne with Mum and Dad on New Year's Eve.
Hardly excessive.
First night back at my flat, went out..... 5 pints! I've had nights in
since though and not felt the "need" for drink despite being back at
work and therefore reunited with the little darling children of
Anfield :-)
It's terribly incorrect to class tee-totallers as "sober" and drinkers
as not (Matt). I'm sober as I write this and not shaking over the
keyboard either!
Drinking can be a problem for many however and it's important to
recognise alcoholism as a disease, alright, self-inflicted, but still
something that requires compassion and help.

Actually, no; there's a genetic predisposition to it. As there is to
addictive personality.
So not really self-inflicted. Parent-inflicted!

[Lew Stringer]

Post by Frankymole

Post by Alan Jones
Drinking can be a problem for many however and it's important to
recognise alcoholism as a disease, alright, self-inflicted, but still
something that requires compassion and help.

Actually, no; there's a genetic predisposition to it. As there is to
addictive personality.
So not really self-inflicted. Parent-inflicted!
--
Frankymole

Adults have to take responsibility for their own actions, not blame their
parents. Having an alcoholic parent does not mean the next generation will
follow suit. Rather the opposite in cases I know.

[International Man of Misery]

<< Subject: Re: Patrick McGoohan - heavy drinking limited his career?
From: ***@thepennyfarthing.com (Alan Jones)
Date: Thu, Jan 8, 2004 8:36 pm
Message-id: <***@posting.google.com>

***@aol.comNOSPAM (MasterOfUnnormal) wrote in message

<snip>

Post by MasterOfUnnormal
If one cant abide the taste of alcohol even, then there isn't an awful lot of
missing out, I can assure you;-)
"Snow fun at all really"

Still playing ""catch up" with the threads after my *internet*
abstinence over Christmas but thought it was time to join this one
with a few just about connected musings....

As someone who enjoys a drink (gasps of shock! horror!) I suppose I'm
expected to join in on the side of saying that letting go now and
again is a good idea. Never that simple is it?....

Yes, I like a drink. Don't like hearing people say they "need" one
though. Some days I drink, others I don't. Christmas at my parents
(almost two weeks) and I had 1 pint of lager with lunch at a pub in
Chester, a whisky now and then with my newly repaired Dad and a coupla
glasses of Portmeirion champagne with Mum and Dad on New Year's Eve.
Hardly excessive.

First night back at my flat, went out..... 5 pints! I've had nights in
since though and not felt the "need" for drink despite being back at
work and therefore reunited with the little darling children of
Anfield :-)

It's terribly incorrect to class tee-totallers as "sober" and drinkers
as not (Matt). I'm sober as I write this and not shaking over the
keyboard either!

Drinking can be a problem for many however and it's important to
recognise alcoholism as a disease, alright, self-inflicted, but still
something that requires compassion and help.

Just a brief sample of regular posters....
Nige likes a decent pint (Flowers, is it, Nige?).
Daz enjoys a drink, I believe ;-)
Rick doesn't drink.
Matthew doesn't drink.
Ronnie likes a Guiness.
Al is a lager lout!

It makes no difference when we are chatting here or elsewhere about
other stuff though, does it?

I don't think Rick or Matthew are missing out on anything because they
don't view it that way. I also don't get drunk anymore. Hate it. May
get a little loose sometimes though!

Back on topic (sorry for my rambling) PMG seemed to choose his roles
in his career. He *was* known for enjoying a drink or three. That's
his business. I don't think he's short of a few dollars anyway and
hope that he is in good health.

Oh and by the way, Matthew. I assume you meant that you don't like the
taste of alcoholic *drinks*. I think you'll find most people don't
even know what alcohol itself tastes like unless they sadly have the
most severe of drink problems.

Gotta go. Off for a pint with Mark and Ronnie!

Al
Hi Al - hope you enjoyed yer pint - just had to individually click through 100+
pages to find this post again - so I'd better make use of it (though it's
probably going to amble into a ramble as it's well past my bed time;-) ).

I think I was talking among other things about 'patsy palmer' to place the
above into context. And yes, I wasn't thinking about what I typed (there's a
surprise!)-and no, I wasn't implying that everyone that drinks is drunk all the
time, so sorry for for writing that, firstly (though I was oblivious to the
inference - trust a school teacher to pick up on that one!;-) ).

Secondly, I should have made it clear that I dislike the unique 'afterburn'
or general taste of drinks containing alchohol (in marked contrast to spicy
food for example)- I presume that this is a combined effect of both the actual
alchohol, and the basic ingredients (ah, Mr Pedant, here.....I am!). Though I
used to like 'Martini' type drinks, and I do like those Schloer grape drinks -
so there is some ambiguity there! But I certainly don't like the detached and
depressing effects of even a small amount of alchoholic drink!

STOP PRESS - this news group thread/christmas has driven me to recently consume
several cans of BASS 'Shandy'!!!!!!!!!!!
It would have been grossly hypocritical of me to omit this important fact!!!
Perhaps someone can translate the alchohol content into 'real terms' i.e. a
fraction of a pint (550ml cans!!!);-))))))))

PS Despite trying to avoid alchohol in food (Christmas puddings etc/ white wine
sauce etc) it's ironic that 'natural remedies' or medical preparations contain
it quite often!!!

Mine's a pie and a pint (hold the pint) please......;-)

"Oh the joys of digital videotape colour grading;-)"

[Rick Davy]

Post by NEHooligan
Rick,
There's a difference between enjoying alcoholic beverages and being a binge
drinker, or one who finds his courage in a bottle.

Indeed there is, but you'd be surprised at the high percentage of people who
wouldn't visit their local pub anywhere near as often if it didn't serve
alcohol. Therefore, they are not going out to socialise or to see friends,
they are going out merely for the alcohol.

Post by NEHooligan
Whether it be quaffing s fine ale, sipping a classic wine, or, even, indulging
in a shot of fine Scotch, the abstainer does, in fact, miss out on these
experiences.
.

Well, you could say that about anything. I don't live in Switzerland, so I
am therefore "missing out" on being able to ski regularly. I have no
interest in skiing. Lew, for example, abstains from playing football and is
"missing out". Lew doesn't like football. If you have no interest in the
things you're missing out on, you're not really missing out.

Here's how I see it:

Not Drinking=
No hangovers.
Can drive home legally at the end of the evening.
Spend £3 as opposed to £30 on a night out.
Have just as good a time as I would if I'd have been drinking.
Remain in full control of my faculties.

As you say, the only thing is "missing out" on tasting certain nice
alcoholic drinks. Let's be honest, they don't taste that nice. If they did,
you'd drink them all the time. ;-)

Rick

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by Rick Davy

Post by NEHooligan
There's a difference between enjoying alcoholic beverages and being a

binge

Post by NEHooligan
drinker, or one who finds his courage in a bottle.

Courage is on draft in my local not in a bottle ;-)

Post by Rick Davy
If you have no interest in the
things you're missing out on, you're not really missing out.

Excellent point and equally valid for vegetarism and womanising......
although to be honest I find it strange that vegetarians dont eat meat but
still eat burger and sausage shaped things. If you're only going to eat
turnips you should do so as God intended even if its exactly the same shape
as a .......

Post by Rick Davy
Not Drinking=No hangovers.

Good point

Post by Rick Davy
Can drive home legally at the end of the evening.

...another good point but you do miss out on the excitement of "which train
station shall I wake up at tonight?" ;-)

Post by Rick Davy
Have just as good a time as I would if I'd have been drinking.

Ah.. but if you had been drinking and had a rotten night you wouldnt
remember it ;-)

[Rick Davy]

Post by Nigel Kitcher
Ah.. but if you had been drinking and had a rotten night you wouldnt
remember it ;-)

And that's a positive thing?

Rick

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by Rick Davy

Post by Nigel Kitcher
Ah.. but if you had been drinking and had a rotten night you wouldnt
remember it ;-)

And that's a positive thing?
Rick

Suppose you had been drinking and pulled Patsy Palmer? Wouldn't you like to
forget that? ;-)

[Rick Davy]

Post by Nigel Kitcher
Suppose you had been drinking and pulled Patsy Palmer? Wouldn't you like to
forget that? ;-)

1) If I had, I'd want to remember how bad it was so I wouldn't dare do it
again.

2) Suppose I had been drinking and pulled Keira Knightly. I'd WANT to
remember that! Forgetting things when you're drunk works both ways!

Rick

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by Rick Davy

Post by Nigel Kitcher
Suppose you had been drinking and pulled Patsy Palmer? Wouldn't you like

to

Post by Nigel Kitcher
forget that? ;-)

1) If I had, I'd want to remember how bad it was so I wouldn't dare do it
again.
2) Suppose I had been drinking and pulled Keira Knightly. I'd WANT to
remember that! Forgetting things when you're drunk works both ways!

Well you know what my memory is like ;-)

[Helen Weathers]

Post by Rick Davy
As you say, the only thing is "missing out" on tasting certain nice
alcoholic drinks. Let's be honest, they don't taste that nice. If they did,
you'd drink them all the time. ;-)
Rick

Quite; I've always maintained that no one starts drinking alcoholic
drinks because they like the taste of them. They start more for
appearance's sake and then get used to the taste and end up liking it.

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by Helen Weathers

Post by Rick Davy
As you say, the only thing is "missing out" on tasting certain nice
alcoholic drinks. Let's be honest, they don't taste that nice. If they did,
you'd drink them all the time. ;-)
Rick

Quite; I've always maintained that no one starts drinking alcoholic
drinks because they like the taste of them.

Thats why I dont drink Guinness, whiskey, mild and a whole heap load of
other alcoholic drinks. I do have a pecking order for drinks which if you
know me is topped by Flowers which I dont see that often, but is always a
delight when I do see it. If I had it all the time it wouldnt be so special
would it??

Putting the case for drinkers against non-alcoholic drinks I personally have
sensitive teeth and have to watch what non-alcoholic drinks I have.

Some of the orange juices make my teeth itch as do many of the "soft"
drinks. Redbull for example is a complete no-no. Yes the taste is nice (but
then thats the natural reaction to sweet things) but it makes my mouth and
jaw ache for hours which is far more disconcerting that any "hangover". You
can just feel all those itzy bitzy bacteria chewing their way into your
teeth and gums... arrrgghhhhh

Which incidently brings me back to my dentist. When I had a wisdom tooth out
and some root canals I asked him what I was allowed to eat to and drink and
he said beer would be excellent because of the alcohol (no sugar) and to
avoid anything with sugary drinks for a while.

Post by Helen Weathers
They start more for
appearance's sake and then get used to the taste and end up liking it.

If you go to a restaurant wouldnt you not try something you've not tried
before? I try to not pick the same dish each time, although I am immediately
limited from my selection as I don't (can not) eat fish/sea food which
therefore normally means a chicken dish of some sort.

[Brian Watson]

Post by Helen Weathers

Post by Rick Davy
As you say, the only thing is "missing out" on tasting certain nice
alcoholic drinks. Let's be honest, they don't taste that nice. If they did,
you'd drink them all the time. ;-)
Rick

Quite; I've always maintained that no one starts drinking alcoholic
drinks because they like the taste of them. They start more for
appearance's sake and then get used to the taste and end up liking it.

That, of course, also applies to most brassicas (and sprouts in particular)
and slices of lemon, even in alcohol-free cocktails.

--
Brian
"Let's be grateful for our Fridays and face our Mondays with good humour."

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by Brian Watson

Post by Helen Weathers

Post by Rick Davy
As you say, the only thing is "missing out" on tasting certain nice
alcoholic drinks. Let's be honest, they don't taste that nice. If they

did,

Post by Helen Weathers

Post by Rick Davy
you'd drink them all the time. ;-)
Rick

Quite; I've always maintained that no one starts drinking alcoholic
drinks because they like the taste of them. They start more for
appearance's sake and then get used to the taste and end up liking it.

That, of course, also applies to most brassicas (and sprouts in particular)
and slices of lemon, even in alcohol-free cocktails.

But slices of lemon are part of the atomos and the whole experience of the
drink, in the same way that ladies like to see men in a black dickie bow and
men like to see ladies in high-heels. Both serve no practical purpose but
are there for the whole enjoyment of the experience.....

.... if anyone wants to argue the case for Sandy Shaw please do so now ;-)

[Brian Watson]

Post by Brian Watson

Post by Brian Watson

Post by Helen Weathers
I've always maintained that no one starts drinking alcoholic
drinks because they like the taste of them. They start more for
appearance's sake and then get used to the taste and end up liking it.

That, of course, also applies to most brassicas (and sprouts in

particular)

Post by Brian Watson
and slices of lemon, even in alcohol-free cocktails.

But slices of lemon are part of the atomos and the whole experience of the
drink, in the same way that ladies like to see men in a black dickie bow and
men like to see ladies in high-heels. Both serve no practical purpose but
are there for the whole enjoyment of the experience.....

I think you may have just made the case for understanding the role of the
sharp taste and extraordinary consistency of draught Guinness.

:-))
--
Brian
"Let's be grateful for our Fridays and face our Mondays with good humour."

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by Helen Weathers

Post by Rick Davy
As you say, the only thing is "missing out" on tasting certain nice
alcoholic drinks. Let's be honest, they don't taste that nice. If they did,
you'd drink them all the time. ;-)
Rick

Quite; I've always maintained that no one starts drinking alcoholic
drinks because they like the taste of them. They start more for
appearance's sake and then get used to the taste and end up liking it.

By your argument that means that eventually Rick will actually enjoy
watching "Richard & Jody" and I'll like that fat cat of mine that keeps
scratching me and throwing up. Dont think I buy that somehow

[MasterOfUnnormal]

<< Subject: Re: Teetotallers (was: Re: Patrick McGoohan - heavy drinking
limited his career?)
From: "Nigel Kitcher" ***@nkitcher.co.uk.zz
Date: Fri, Jan 2, 2004 2:00 pm

Post by Helen Weathers

Post by Rick Davy
As you say, the only thing is "missing out" on tasting certain nice
alcoholic drinks. Let's be honest, they don't taste that nice. If they did,
you'd drink them all the time. ;-)
Rick

Quite; I've always maintained that no one starts drinking alcoholic
drinks because they like the taste of them. They start more for
appearance's sake and then get used to the taste and end up liking it.

By your argument that means that eventually Rick will actually enjoy
watching "Richard & Jody" and I'll like that fat cat of mine that keeps
scratching me and throwing up. Dont think I buy that somehow
Ah-we are back to the Prisoner IMHO!!!!! Nige- if you watch Richard and Jody
(sic) - and put up with your cat's behavior for appearance's sake then i dread
to think WHAT appearance you are aiming for;-)

It's precisely the sheep mentality (with apologies to genuine sheep!) that the
Prisoner rejects - half the things we like are things that we're told we ought
to - and there's an awful lot of subtle pressure placed on maintaining things
that way (to the point of them being subliminal). One is limited re: consumer
choice in music, fashion, television, and general 'lifestyle' to some values
that a committee or marketing exec (aged 18 no doubt) has worked out on paper
is the ideal commercial situation to have the population adhere to.

"I will not be stamped, filed, photolicenced or help rescue WHSmith because
they only offer a handful of DVDs at top price then moan about losing
£45million in profits last year. My spending power and image is my own.....er,
um,unless you don't like it that is........."

"Snow fun at all really"

[Helen Weathers]

Post by Nigel Kitcher

Post by Helen Weathers
Quite; I've always maintained that no one starts drinking alcoholic
drinks because they like the taste of them. They start more for
appearance's sake and then get used to the taste and end up liking it.

By your argument that means that eventually Rick will actually enjoy
watching "Richard & Jody" and I'll like that fat cat of mine that keeps
scratching me and throwing up. Dont think I buy that somehow

Does Rick currently watch Richard and Judy then without enjoying it?

[International Man of Misery]

<< Subject: Re: Teetotallers (was: Re: Patrick McGoohan - heavy drinking
limited his career?)
From: ***@hotmail.com (Helen Weathers)
Date: Sun, Jan 4, 2004 6:18 pm

Post by Nigel Kitcher

Post by Helen Weathers
Quite; I've always maintained that no one starts drinking alcoholic
drinks because they like the taste of them. They start more for
appearance's sake and then get used to the taste and end up liking it.

By your argument that means that eventually Rick will actually enjoy
watching "Richard & Jody" and I'll like that fat cat of mine that keeps
scratching me and throwing up. Dont think I buy that somehow

Does Rick currently watch Richard and Judy then without enjoying it?
Sounds like an aversion therapists' way of instilling pomposity, neurosis, and
inflated ego traits. "Obnoxious know-it-all brain washing for No. Rick-or
Madelyism, as it's known to British viewers".;-)

"New Year? Do me a favour - I've still got an unresolved complaint with the
last one....."

[Rick Davy]

Post by Helen Weathers

Post by Nigel Kitcher

Post by Helen Weathers
Quite; I've always maintained that no one starts drinking alcoholic
drinks because they like the taste of them. They start more for
appearance's sake and then get used to the taste and end up liking it.

By your argument that means that eventually Rick will actually enjoy
watching "Richard & Jody" and I'll like that fat cat of mine that keeps
scratching me and throwing up. Dont think I buy that somehow

Does Rick currently watch Richard and Judy then without enjoying it?

No, I don't watch it at all.

Rick

[Frankymole]

Post by Helen Weathers

Post by Rick Davy
As you say, the only thing is "missing out" on tasting certain nice
alcoholic drinks. Let's be honest, they don't taste that nice. If they did,
you'd drink them all the time. ;-)
Rick

Quite; I've always maintained that no one starts drinking alcoholic
drinks because they like the taste of them. They start more for
appearance's sake and then get used to the taste and end up liking it.

Unless you're French. They give wine to their small kids at mealtimes.

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by Rick Davy

Post by Helen Weathers

Post by Rick Davy
As you say, the only thing is "missing out" on tasting certain nice
alcoholic drinks. Let's be honest, they don't taste that nice. If

they did,

Post by Helen Weathers

Post by Rick Davy
you'd drink them all the time. ;-)
Rick

Quite; I've always maintained that no one starts drinking alcoholic
drinks because they like the taste of them. They start more for
appearance's sake and then get used to the taste and end up liking it.

Unless you're French. They give wine to their small kids at mealtimes.

Which is actually a good thing as you'll find that the southern
European/mediterranean diets which are supplemented with red wine lend
themselves to low fat in the blood and a much lesser risk to heart disease:

http://www.winespectator.com/Wine/Main/Feature_Basic_Template/1,1197,1104,00.html

I have less than half the UK average cholesterol in my blood so its far from
doing me any harm.

[Steve Dix]

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 02:48:43 -0000, "Nigel Kitcher"

Post by Nigel Kitcher
Which is actually a good thing as you'll find that the southern
European/mediterranean diets which are supplemented with red wine lend
http://www.winespectator.com/Wine/Main/Feature_Basic_Template/1,1197,1104,00.html
I have less than half the UK average cholesterol in my blood so its far from
doing me any harm.

...Anyone want to buy some wine? My Girlfriend's parents are at
http://www.zur-muehle-veldenz.de

They do a very nice Riesling (white), and the Dornfeld(red) has been
very good this year.

[Brian Watson]

... you'd be surprised at the high percentage of people who
wouldn't visit their local pub anywhere near as often if it didn't serve
alcohol.

Well, that's true. But there are plenty of other places to socialise as well
as a pub and I see it as principally a place to go when want to socialise
with friends over an alcoholic drink or several. I also have the option of
drinking alcoholic drinks at home, if I choose, but I don't unless I have
company and then not much.

When I'm not the nominated driver for the evening, I usually drink alcoholic
drinks in moderation. Maybe (and I've just been thinking about the whole of
last year) 2/3 times I have got spectacularly drunk as part of an evening
out. Always mentally having one foot on the ground, but still pretty
befuddled. I don't see that as a bad thing.

Therefore, they are not going out to socialise or to see friends,
they are going out merely for the alcohol.

No, I think you're wrong - I think they are going out for a social evening
that includes drinking alcoholic drinks. It is a whole package, like going
to see a film and buying a pot of popcorn. You don't have to buy the
popcorn, but it is a frequent part of the experiance for many people.

Not Drinking=
No hangovers.

Fair comment, but I usually don't get a hangover when I've been out at the
pub or a club the night before. It's all abut drnking in moderation.

Can drive home legally at the end of the evening.

Fine, But my chums and I take turns to be the nominated driver, or we share
a cab or take public transposrt.

Spend £3 as opposed to £30 on a night out.

What's that? Rent a video and stay in?

Have just as good a time as I would if I'd have been drinking.

Well, that's a bit "eye of the beholder", I suppose. Getting a bit drunk as
part of my personal palette of social options works for me.

Remain in full control of my faculties.

Part of the attraction of drinking is that letting slip the reins of
self-control. Do you dance, I wonder?

As you say, the only thing is "missing out" on tasting certain nice
alcoholic drinks. Let's be honest, they don't taste that nice. If they did,
you'd drink them all the time. ;-)

No I wouldn't, because then I would be using them irresponsibly. I like
oranges and cream cakes, but I don't eat them all the time.
--
Brian
"What's the point in growing up if you can't behave like a kid when you want
to."

[Rick Davy]

Post by Brian Watson
Always mentally having one foot on the ground, but still pretty
befuddled. I don't see that as a bad thing.

Indeed not - but nor is someone who chooses not to get befuddled "missing
out", as someone else noted.

Post by Brian Watson
No, I think you're wrong - I think they are going out for a social evening
that includes drinking alcoholic drinks. It is a whole package, like going
to see a film and buying a pot of popcorn. You don't have to buy the
popcorn, but it is a frequent part of the experiance for many people.

Indeed, but if cinemas stopped selling popcorn, the same amount of people
would still visit the cinema. If pubs stopped selling alcohol, they'd be
empty.

Post by Brian Watson

Post by Rick Davy
Spend £3 as opposed to £30 on a night out.

What's that? Rent a video and stay in?

3 diet coke's last me a night.

Post by Brian Watson

Post by Rick Davy
Have just as good a time as I would if I'd have been drinking.

Well, that's a bit "eye of the beholder", I suppose.

Well, exactly. I used to drink in a similar way that you do (IE have a few
beers or whatever - nothing silly) and found that I was having no better
time than if I didn't drink. Therefore, there seemed little point.

Post by Brian Watson
Part of the attraction of drinking is that letting slip the reins of
self-control. Do you dance, I wonder?

I can dance, but choose not to as I don't particularly enjoy doing so (and
was the same in the days when I drank). I agree that one of the attractions
of drinking is that it gives more "confidence" to some (be it dancing,
chatting up women, or being a little more "sociable") but the point I am
making is that I have that confidence anyway. I'm sure those on this ng who
know me personally will agree that I'm not exactly backwards in coming
forwards and that I'm no different now than I was 7-8 years ago when I used
to drink.

Post by Brian Watson
No I wouldn't, because then I would be using them irresponsibly. I like
oranges and cream cakes, but I don't eat them all the time.

Cue Daz to mention pies. ;-)

Good debate, this one. Nothing to do with the Prisoner, but hey ho.

Rick

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by Rick Davy
Indeed, but if cinemas stopped selling popcorn, the same amount of people
would still visit the cinema. If pubs stopped selling alcohol, they'd be
empty.

If people stopped going to the pubs they would be empty not if they stopped
selling alcohol. Go to my local ("The Hope and Anchor" - really!) on a say a
Tuesday night and they are selling alcohol but its empty.

Post by Rick Davy

Post by Brian Watson

Post by Rick Davy
Spend £3 as opposed to £30 on a night out.

What's that? Rent a video and stay in?

3 diet coke's last me a night.

Costs me £10 just to get the train into London for a night out so not
drinking actually wont save me that much percentage wise and at what I;'m
told the Ton charges.....

Post by Rick Davy
Well, exactly. I used to drink in a similar way that you do (IE have a few
beers or whatever - nothing silly) and found that I was having no better
time than if I didn't drink. Therefore, there seemed little point.

Post by Brian Watson
Part of the attraction of drinking is that letting slip the reins of
self-control. Do you dance, I wonder?

Not sure what drink and dance have in common. Have you ever met Ivan?

Post by Rick Davy
I am making is that I have that confidence anyway.

but is that confidence from something other than the use of alcohol?

Post by Rick Davy
I'm no different now than I was 7-8 years ago when I used
to drink.

You have a different hair style ;-)

Post by Rick Davy

Post by Brian Watson
No I wouldn't, because then I would be using them irresponsibly. I like
oranges and cream cakes, but I don't eat them all the time.

I'm wondering how you can use oranges irresponsibly now.... but then anyone
who remembers the old convention nighttime game of "Orange Alert" knows.....
(just to get it sort of back into Pris topic)

[Brian Watson]

Post by Nigel Kitcher

Post by Brian Watson
Part of the attraction of drinking is that letting slip the reins of
self-control. Do you dance, I wonder?

Not sure what drink and dance have in common.

Both, unless we are talking strict-tempo Ballroom, involve a degree of
letting slip the reins of self-control.

Post by Nigel Kitcher

Post by Brian Watson
. I like
oranges and cream cakes, but I don't eat them all the time.

I'm wondering how you can use oranges irresponsibly now....

Modesty forbids .. however, I could eat loads of (ie, 6+) oranges at a
sitting but that amount of acidic stuff would give me SUCH a stomach ache.

--
Brian
"Let's be grateful for our Fridays and face our Mondays with good humour."

[Frankymole]

Post by Brian Watson

Post by Nigel Kitcher

Post by Brian Watson
Part of the attraction of drinking is that letting slip the reins of
self-control. Do you dance, I wonder?

Not sure what drink and dance have in common.

Both, unless we are talking strict-tempo Ballroom, involve a degree of
letting slip the reins of self-control.

Post by Nigel Kitcher

Post by Brian Watson
. I like
oranges and cream cakes, but I don't eat them all the time.

I'm wondering how you can use oranges irresponsibly now....

Modesty forbids .. however, I could eat loads of (ie, 6+) oranges at a
sitting but that amount of acidic stuff would give me SUCH a stomach ache.

Did you know that eating 8 (or was it 3) bowls of rhubarb will kill
you - its acid burns a hole in your stomach.

[Christopher Browne]

Post by Frankymole
Did you know that eating 8 (or was it 3) bowls of rhubarb will kill
you - its acid burns a hole in your stomach.

The problem with rhubarb is in the leaves, not in the stalks:
http://www.rhubarbinfo.com/rhubarb-poison.html

"The biodynamic (toxicity) mechanism by which oxalic acid works is
somewhat different from organic poisons and is more analogous to
heavy metal poisoning. Organic poisons often work through at the
biochemical level, e.g. cyanide by interfering with respiration at
the cellular level, strychnine by screwing up intersynaptic
transmission. There are many molecular substances in foods which
offer no nutritional benefit, and must be processed and
excreted. Oxalic acid, for example, is excreted in the urine, and
its crystals are commonly found in microscopic urinalysis. Too much
oxalic acid in the urine will result in kidney or bladder
stones. Calcium combines with oxalic acid to form the less soluble
salt, calcium oxalate, which is also found in kidney stones. Plant
leaves, especially rhubarb, cabbage, spinach, and beet tops, contain
oxalic acid. Oxalic acid is also found in potatoes and peas. Vitamin
C is metabolized to oxalic acid; it contributes to over-saturation
of the urine with crystals and possibly to stone formation."

That last sentence is rather interesting; too much Vitamin C leads to
metabolizing it into oxalic acid, which then combines with calcium to
generate kidney stones. Don't take _too_ much Vitamin C :-)...

"From an MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for Oxalic acid, LD50
(LD50 is the Median Lethal Dose, which is the dose of a drug or
chemical predicted to produce a lethal effect in 50 percent of the
subjects to whom the dose is given) in rats is 375 mg/kg. So for a
person about 145 pounds (65.7 kg) that's about 25 grams of pure
oxalic acid required to cause death. Rhubarb leaves are probably
around 0.5% oxalic acid, so that you would need to eat quite a large
serving of leaves, like 5 kg (11 lbs), to get that 24 grams of
oxalic acid. Note that it will only require a fraction of that to
cause sickness."

The symptoms of poisoning are thus:

"On the body body as a whole one might experience weakness, burning
in the mouth, death from cardiovascular collapse; on the respiratory
system - difficulty breathing; on the eyes, ears, nose, and throat -
burning in the throat; one the gastrointestinal system - abdominal
pain, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea; and on the nervous system -
Convulsions, coma."

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by Christopher Browne

Post by Frankymole
Did you know that eating 8 (or was it 3) bowls of rhubarb will kill
you - its acid burns a hole in your stomach.

That last sentence is rather interesting; too much Vitamin C leads to
metabolizing it into oxalic acid, which then combines with calcium to
generate kidney stones. Don't take _too_ much Vitamin C :-)...

I was under the impression from a young nurtritionist lady friend of mine
that Vitamin C in overdoze wasnt a problem because its water soluable or
something and simply passes straight through the body providing no use at
all. Hence the multi-vitamins that give you 100%+ of RDA are actually a
waste of time.

[Brian Watson]

Post by Christopher Browne

Post by Frankymole
Did you know that eating 8 (or was it 3) bowls of rhubarb will kill
you - its acid burns a hole in your stomach.

http://www.rhubarbinfo.com/rhubarb-poison.html

Damn. You mean I've just eaten 8 bowls of rhubarb for nothing?

Hang on ... I think I'm .... oh dear ... I ... urgh!!!

(Back soon).

--
Br..

[Brian Watson]

Post by Frankymole
Did you know that eating 8 (or was it 3) bowls of rhubarb will kill
you - its acid burns a hole in your stomach.

Wow! I must try that. Who wants my video collection?

--
Brian
"What's the point in growing up if you can't behave like a kid when you want
to."

[Rick Davy]

Post by Nigel Kitcher
Costs me £10 just to get the train into London for a night out so not
drinking actually wont save me that much percentage wise and at what I;'m
told the Ton charges.....

Every time you go out you go into London? I think you're missing the point
somewhat.

Post by Nigel Kitcher
but is that confidence from something other than the use of alcohol?

Well since I don't drink, obviously!

Post by Nigel Kitcher

Post by Rick Davy
I'm no different now than I was 7-8 years ago when I used
to drink.

You have a different hair style ;-)

No I don't.

Rick

[Steve Dix]

On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 13:47:23 +0000 (UTC), "Rick Davy"

Post by Rick Davy
3 diet coke's last me a night.

If ONLY you were a girl......

;->

[Nigel Kitcher]

Post by Brian Watson

Post by Rick Davy
Spend £3 as opposed to £30 on a night out.

What's that? Rent a video and stay in?

£3??!! When was the last time you rented a video?? Down here theres not much
difference between getting it on video and seeing it in the cinema.

[Brian Watson]

Post by Nigel Kitcher

Post by Brian Watson

Post by Rick Davy
Spend £3 as opposed to £30 on a night out.

What's that? Rent a video and stay in?

£3??!! When was the last time you rented a video??

Um, 199 ...er ... OK, point made.

:-)

--
Brian
"Let's be grateful for our Fridays and face our Mondays with good humour."

[Brian Watson]

Post by Rick Davy

Post by NEHooligan

Post by Brian Watson

Post by MR DOLEMITE
What's wrong with liking a drink?
Tee-totals are missing out anyway !

How?

Wake up with a hangover and the day can only get better.

"Pity the abstainer."

I think that having a personality and sense of enjoyment so strong that one
doesn't need alcohol to give one the confidence to bring it out is something
to be congratulated. Also saves you a hell of a lot of money.

Oh, I'm not a shy boy who needs alcohol I can assure you.

In fact (as I have said to my drama students from time to time) the only
thing that scares me is that nothing scares me.

However, I enjoy alcoholic drinks (especially good malt whiskies) as
recreational accessories.

--
Brian (current band front man, MC, former Gorillagram, Honey Monster,
Caveman...)
"What's the point in growing up if you can't behave like a kid when you want
to."

[Jill Mills]

Post by Brian Watson
Oh, I'm not a shy boy who needs alcohol I can assure you.

Get away! :-)

Post by Brian Watson
However, I enjoy alcoholic drinks (especially good malt whiskies) as
recreational accessories.

In that case, I'll take this opportunity to wish you and all the rest of the
group an early Happy New Year!

Lang may your lum reek... (Hic!)

Jill.

[Brian Watson]

Post by Jill Mills

Post by Brian Watson
Oh, I'm not a shy boy who needs alcohol I can assure you.

Get away! :-)

Post by Brian Watson
However, I enjoy alcoholic drinks (especially good malt whiskies) as
recreational accessories.

In that case, I'll take this opportunity to wish you and all the rest of the
group an early Happy New Year!
Lang may your lum reek... (Hic!)

Cheers! (and any other national expressions of similar sentiment that are
appropriate).

--
Brian
"Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly"