Discussion:
Paternoster lifts
(too old to reply)
Ivor Jones
2005-06-30 22:47:51 UTC
Permalink
Looking at the page on the Unmutuals site
http://www.theunmutual.co.uk/gec.htm about the Paternoster lifts used in
"Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling" got me wondering how many of these lifts
are still in operation.

I know that the one in the Dental School in Birmingham Dental Hospital was
operational 3 years ago, as I rode in it, but I don't know if it's still
there.

Can anyone who knows of a working Paternoster lift post details, and
possibly photographs..?

Ivor
g***@aol.com
2005-06-30 22:56:26 UTC
Permalink
Any students in the Arts Tower at Sheffield Uni?
They had one when I went for an interview on the top floor 15 years ago
- then the fire alarm went of and it's about 20 storeys of stairs when
the lifts aren't working - and back up again. Needless to say, I didn't
take them up on their offer.
mr_bridger
2005-07-01 23:21:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@aol.com
Any students in the Arts Tower at Sheffield Uni?
They had one when I went for an interview on the top floor 15 years ago
- then the fire alarm went of and it's about 20 storeys of stairs when
the lifts aren't working - and back up again. Needless to say, I didn't
take them up on their offer.
Its gone now - but i recall some interesting turns going over the top
and around the bottom with a fellow student who had a passion for
pulling the stop chord
245 ;-)
Stachelhaut777
2005-07-01 04:28:30 UTC
Permalink
In Hamburg we do have still more than 30 paternosters (not all of them
open to the public).
You can find a list here: http://www.flemming-hamburg.de/patlist.htm

The first one was installed in 1886 at the Dovenhof (the building was
pulled down in 1967) and soon paternosters became characteristic for
the many typical branch office buildings. In 1936 344 of the 679
paternosters in Germany where running in Hamburg. Because they were
used for the transport of the simple employees they were called "cad
diggers" ("Proletenbagger") while the locked lifts for the bosses were
called "fat cat lifters" ("Bonzenheber").

Pictures of paternosters can be found here:
http://www.urbansight.de/html/paternoster.html
Frankymole
2005-07-01 06:15:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stachelhaut777
In Hamburg we do have still more than 30 paternosters (not all of them
open to the public).
You can find a list here: http://www.flemming-hamburg.de/patlist.htm
The first one was installed in 1886 at the Dovenhof (the building was
pulled down in 1967) and soon paternosters became characteristic for
the many typical branch office buildings. In 1936 344 of the 679
paternosters in Germany where running in Hamburg. Because they were
used for the transport of the simple employees they were called "cad
diggers" ("Proletenbagger") while the locked lifts for the bosses were
called "fat cat lifters" ("Bonzenheber").
http://www.urbansight.de/html/paternoster.html
I'm surprised they still accord with EU safety law!
--
Frankymole
~~~~~~~~
The alt.tv.prisoner FAQ can be found at:
http://www.web-sighted.co.uk/franks/faq.html

Information and evidence about Six of One, the disgraced Prisoner
Appreciation
Society, can be found at: http://www.sixofone-info.co.uk/

Prisoner & Portmeirion News can be found at:
http://www.theunmutual.co.uk
Steve Dix
2005-07-02 10:31:22 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 07:15:43 +0100, "Frankymole"
Post by Frankymole
Post by Stachelhaut777
In Hamburg we do have still more than 30 paternosters (not all of them
open to the public).
You can find a list here: http://www.flemming-hamburg.de/patlist.htm
The first one was installed in 1886 at the Dovenhof (the building was
pulled down in 1967) and soon paternosters became characteristic for
the many typical branch office buildings. In 1936 344 of the 679
paternosters in Germany where running in Hamburg. Because they were
used for the transport of the simple employees they were called "cad
diggers" ("Proletenbagger") while the locked lifts for the bosses were
called "fat cat lifters" ("Bonzenheber").
http://www.urbansight.de/html/paternoster.html
I'm surprised they still accord with EU safety law!
Technically, they don't.
--
http://www.cdbaby.com/sinistrals http://sinistrals.stevedix.de/
http://www.mp3tunes.net/TheSinistrals http://www.stevedix.de/blog
http://www.snorty.net/ <***@stevedix.de>
Des
2005-07-02 11:37:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Dix
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 07:15:43 +0100, "Frankymole"
Post by Frankymole
Post by Stachelhaut777
In Hamburg we do have still more than 30 paternosters (not all of them
open to the public).
You can find a list here: http://www.flemming-hamburg.de/patlist.htm
The first one was installed in 1886 at the Dovenhof (the building was
pulled down in 1967) and soon paternosters became characteristic for
the many typical branch office buildings. In 1936 344 of the 679
paternosters in Germany where running in Hamburg. Because they were
used for the transport of the simple employees they were called "cad
diggers" ("Proletenbagger") while the locked lifts for the bosses were
called "fat cat lifters" ("Bonzenheber").
http://www.urbansight.de/html/paternoster.html
I'm surprised they still accord with EU safety law!
Technically, they don't.
I've often wondered what happens if you have your head arm or leg sticking
out of the lift as it rises. Is it designed like a funnel to stuff your
appurtenances back inside or is there a big cutoff lever across the top of
the entrance?
Has anyone ever been decapitated in one?
I can imagine a really embarrassing situation trying to take several French
loaves and my elderly mum-in-law up in one...

Des.
mr_bridger
2005-07-02 17:11:43 UTC
Permalink
as I recall the floor edge is like a flap which lifts if your feet are
over the edge - also triggers them to stop - great fun though -
especially if you are in one with a friend going around the bottom ;-)
Ivor Jones
2005-07-02 17:45:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by mr_bridger
as I recall the floor edge is like a flap which lifts if your feet are
over the edge - also triggers them to stop - great fun though -
especially if you are in one with a friend going around the bottom ;-)
I've just been watching an episode of Van der Valk on ITV3 (not the
original 70's series but a 1990 remake) and Barry Foster was seen getting
in and out of one, presumably somewhere in Amsterdam.

I must investigate and see if the one in the Birmingham Dental School is
still there..!

Ivor
Michele
2005-07-03 00:59:50 UTC
Permalink
Okay I give up would someone please describe what a Paternoster lift
is?

Michele
Still Ryno
2005-07-03 01:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michele
Okay I give up would someone please describe what a Paternoster lift
is?
Michele
http://www.dartfordarchive.org.uk/technology/engin_hall_lifts.shtml

THE PATERNOSTER LIFT

A curious feature of the lift business was the revival, briefly
referred to earlier, of the continuously moving lift. Called the
Paternoster lift, it was more handsome than but no different in basic
principle from its poor relation of the early 1900s. It was better
known and more readily accepted on the Continent than in the UK. Since
it did not stop for the passenger to enter or alight, it looked
alarming and sales at first were slow in spite of its advantages. It
could handle twice as many 'up' passengers as the most advanced
high-speed lifts of its time, and a comparable volume of traffic at
the same time on the downward phase of the cycle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternoster

A paternoster or paternoster lift is an elevator which consists of a
chain of open compartments (each usually designed for two persons)
that move slowly in a loop up and down inside a building without
stopping. Passengers who are agile enough can step on or off at any
floor they like.

Paternosters were popular throughout the first half of the 20th
century as they could carry more passengers than ordinary elevators.
They were more common in Europe, especially in public buildings, and
less so in Great Britain.

Today, in many countries new construction of paternosters is not
allowed any more because of the high danger of accidents (people
tripping or falling over when trying to enter or alight). Also, an
increased sensitivity to the needs of the disabled, for instance
wheelchair users, has led to the paternoster's gradual demise.
Existing ones remain operative until they are dismantled, so there are
still some but their number is continually decreasing. As objects that
belong to a vanishing world, for some people paternosters have
achieved cult status.

An irrational yet common misconception is that it is dangerous to stay
on in an upgoing cabin after it has reached the top floor or in a
downgoing one after it has passed the ground floor level. However,
nothing much happens in such a case, as the compartment remains
upright.

The name paternoster ("Our Father") has been taken from the first two
words of the Lord's Prayer in Latin. A special bead on a rosary
indicates that a Pater Noster is to be said, and from there the whole
rosary and, what is more, anything resembling a rosary was referred to
as paternoster.

An example of a continuous-belt type paternoster of the type used in
industrial plants can be seen in the 1966 film Our Man Flint, in which
James Coburn uses a paternoster to escape pursuing enemies.

========================================

Another nerdy reference service from [tah-daaaah!] Aperger-man!!


/ryno

The original Hornery Critter.
Alan Jones
2005-07-03 18:32:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Still Ryno
Post by Michele
Okay I give up would someone please describe what a Paternoster lift
is?
Michele
http://www.dartfordarchive.org.uk/technology/engin_hall_lifts.shtml
THE PATERNOSTER LIFT
A curious feature of the lift business was the revival, briefly
referred to earlier, of the continuously moving lift. Called the
Paternoster lift, it was more handsome than but no different in basic
principle from its poor relation of the early 1900s. It was better
known and more readily accepted on the Continent than in the UK. Since
it did not stop for the passenger to enter or alight, it looked
alarming and sales at first were slow in spite of its advantages. It
could handle twice as many 'up' passengers as the most advanced
high-speed lifts of its time, and a comparable volume of traffic at
the same time on the downward phase of the cycle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternoster
A paternoster or paternoster lift is an elevator which consists of a
chain of open compartments (each usually designed for two persons)
that move slowly in a loop up and down inside a building without
stopping. Passengers who are agile enough can step on or off at any
floor they like.
Paternosters were popular throughout the first half of the 20th
century as they could carry more passengers than ordinary elevators.
They were more common in Europe, especially in public buildings, and
less so in Great Britain.
Today, in many countries new construction of paternosters is not
allowed any more because of the high danger of accidents (people
tripping or falling over when trying to enter or alight). Also, an
increased sensitivity to the needs of the disabled, for instance
wheelchair users, has led to the paternoster's gradual demise.
Existing ones remain operative until they are dismantled, so there are
still some but their number is continually decreasing. As objects that
belong to a vanishing world, for some people paternosters have
achieved cult status.
An irrational yet common misconception is that it is dangerous to stay
on in an upgoing cabin after it has reached the top floor or in a
downgoing one after it has passed the ground floor level. However,
nothing much happens in such a case, as the compartment remains
upright.
The name paternoster ("Our Father") has been taken from the first two
words of the Lord's Prayer in Latin. A special bead on a rosary
indicates that a Pater Noster is to be said, and from there the whole
rosary and, what is more, anything resembling a rosary was referred to
as paternoster.
An example of a continuous-belt type paternoster of the type used in
industrial plants can be seen in the 1966 film Our Man Flint, in which
James Coburn uses a paternoster to escape pursuing enemies.
========================================
Another nerdy reference service from [tah-daaaah!] Aperger-man!!
/ryno
The original Hornery Critter.
That's great!
I was just wondering about how to explain the damn things to Michele and
you've done it perfectly.

Cheers,

<a relieved>

Al

http://www.thepennyfarthing.com
Rick Davy
2005-07-03 01:41:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michele
Okay I give up would someone please describe what a Paternoster lift
is?
Michele
It's the weird constantly moving lift with no doors that Number Six goes on
when he visits Sir Charles in "Do Not Forsake Me", Michele. :-)

Rick
Sphinx601
2005-07-03 10:39:22 UTC
Permalink
They look too dangers im surpised they allowed them in the first place.

TH
Frank B.
2005-07-03 14:44:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sphinx601
They look too dangers im surpised they allowed them in the first place.
TH
"Surpise" does not exist.
Ivor Jones
2005-07-03 15:20:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank B.
Post by Sphinx601
They look too dangers im surpised they allowed them in the first place.
TH
"Surpise" does not exist.
I wish "im" didn't <g>

Ivor
Michele
2005-07-03 15:20:39 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the explanation. Obviously I have never seen them stateside.
I kept having visions of something that was so dangerous that when you
got in you prayed that you were able to get out safely. ;-)

Michele
Ivor Jones
2005-07-03 17:17:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michele
Thanks for the explanation. Obviously I have never seen them stateside.
I kept having visions of something that was so dangerous that when you
got in you prayed that you were able to get out safely. ;-)
That can happen ;-)

Did you look at the link in my original post..? This shows the one used in
Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling and clearly indicates how Paternoster
lifts work.

http://www.theunmutual.co.uk/gec.htm

Ivor
Alan Jones
2005-07-03 18:39:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michele
Thanks for the explanation. Obviously I have never seen them stateside.
I kept having visions of something that was so dangerous that when you
got in you prayed that you were able to get out safely. ;-)
Michele
I'd always known of the "Our Father" link thanks to my schoolboy Latin,
though being Church In Wales (It's like CofE only, er, in Wales!), I hadn't
been aware of the rosary bead connection.

You would have needed to pray pretty quickly before the next floor!


--
Al

http://www.thepennyfarthing.com
Steve Dix
2005-07-03 20:09:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michele
Thanks for the explanation. Obviously I have never seen them stateside.
I kept having visions of something that was so dangerous that when you
got in you prayed that you were able to get out safely. ;-)
Michele
They're not that hard to use - once you've got the hang of getting in
at the right moment. The problem is, if you're disabled, or carrying
something awkward, then it makes it more difficult to alight at the
right moment. Leave it too late on the down side and you find your
step getting longer every second.
--
http://www.cdbaby.com/sinistrals http://sinistrals.stevedix.de/
http://www.mp3tunes.net/TheSinistrals http://www.stevedix.de/blog
http://www.snorty.net/ <***@stevedix.de>
Frankymole
2005-07-07 00:34:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sphinx601
They look too dangers im surpised they allowed them in the first place.
TH
im does not exist.
--
Frankymole
~~~~~~~~
The alt.tv.prisoner FAQ can be found at:
http://www.web-sighted.co.uk/franks/faq.html

Information and evidence about Six of One, the disgraced Prisoner
Appreciation
Society, can be found at: http://www.sixofone-info.co.uk/

Prisoner & Portmeirion News can be found at:
http://www.theunmutual.co.uk
Steve Dix
2005-07-03 20:03:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michele
Okay I give up would someone please describe what a Paternoster lift
is?
Michele
Complete with a picture of one in Vienna :

http://www.mywiseowl.com/articles/Paternoster
--
http://www.cdbaby.com/sinistrals http://sinistrals.stevedix.de/
http://www.mp3tunes.net/TheSinistrals http://www.stevedix.de/blog
http://www.snorty.net/ <***@stevedix.de>
Steve Dix
2005-07-03 20:06:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michele
Okay I give up would someone please describe what a Paternoster lift
is?
Michele
And here's a list of working ones in Germany

http://web.archive.org/web/20010909232455/members.surfeu.de/awin/paternoster.html

The ones I was referring to are the F&G Gebaude, the Bezirksrathaus,
and the VHS, at Josef Haubrich Hof.

I'm surprised to hear there's one at Saturn. and at Kaufhof AG. I
used to live practically next to that building.
--
http://www.cdbaby.com/sinistrals http://sinistrals.stevedix.de/
http://www.mp3tunes.net/TheSinistrals http://www.stevedix.de/blog
http://www.snorty.net/ <***@stevedix.de>
Stachelhaut777
2005-07-07 18:39:05 UTC
Permalink
Look at the top right GIF: http://www.flemming-hamburg.de/patlist.htm.

Stachelhaut
Post by Michele
Okay I give up would someone please describe what a Paternoster lift
is?
Michele
Steve Dix
2005-07-03 19:59:00 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 11:37:22 +0000 (UTC), "Des"
Post by Des
Post by Steve Dix
Technically, they don't.
I've often wondered what happens if you have your head arm or leg sticking
out of the lift as it rises. Is it designed like a funnel to stuff your
appurtenances back inside or is there a big cutoff lever across the top of
the entrance?
Has anyone ever been decapitated in one?
I can imagine a really embarrassing situation trying to take several French
loaves and my elderly mum-in-law up in one...
Des.
It gets broken, that's what happens, as one of the students at the VHS
found out.

To be fair, there is a hinged panel on the floor of each car, so if
someone gets caught by the paternoster going down, that hinged
section flips up and stops any serious injury.
--
http://www.cdbaby.com/sinistrals http://sinistrals.stevedix.de/
http://www.mp3tunes.net/TheSinistrals http://www.stevedix.de/blog
http://www.snorty.net/ <***@stevedix.de>
Steve Dix
2005-07-02 10:29:57 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 23:47:51 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
Post by Ivor Jones
Looking at the page on the Unmutuals site
http://www.theunmutual.co.uk/gec.htm about the Paternoster lifts used in
"Do Not Forsake Me Oh My Darling" got me wondering how many of these lifts
are still in operation.
I know that the one in the Dental School in Birmingham Dental Hospital was
operational 3 years ago, as I rode in it, but I don't know if it's still
there.
Can anyone who knows of a working Paternoster lift post details, and
possibly photographs..?
Ivor
I can tell you of three in Cologne. There's one in the
VolksHochSchule building just off Neumarkt, another in the Council
building next to the WDR building, and one in AGFA in Leverkusen.

They're quite common over here in buildings from the 50's.
--
http://www.cdbaby.com/sinistrals http://sinistrals.stevedix.de/
http://www.mp3tunes.net/TheSinistrals http://www.stevedix.de/blog
http://www.snorty.net/ <***@stevedix.de>
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